Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 45

This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current main page.

Archive 40

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Archive 43

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Possible terrorist incident

There is a possible, emphasize possible terrorism incident occurring in Martin Place where hostages have been taken ≈ 9.45-9.50 AM in a Lindt cafe. People standing against the windows, holding up 'Islamic' flag's, though apparently not the ISIL flag. Trains through Martin Place station stopped, people evacuated or unable to leave buildings nearby. [3]. fingers crossed. --220 of ^Borg 00:26, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

There's an article at 2014 Sydney hostage crisis.--Melburnian (talk) 01:51, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Melburnian! --220 of ^Borg 01:58, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

This looks like going on for a while, since the police have said they ~~don't know how to use a sniper rifle.~~ are prepared for the siege to go on for days. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:06, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

The self-styled Sheikh Haron has been named in the media as being involved. That article could do with some work.Hack (talk) 14:05, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Islamic articles in Australia

I was surprised that there is no article for Grand Mufti of Australia nor for Ibrahim Abu Mohamed/Ibrahim Abu Mohammed. I can make a stub by scrounging bits from various other articles (e.g. Grand Mufti, Fehmi Naji), but it would be better if someone who has some knowledge of the subjects was involved. Anyone interested? --Scott Davis ^Talk 12:35, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

RfC on governor-general's role

There's an RfC open at Talk:Governor-General of Australia#RfC on governor-general's role that's not attracting much input from anyone other than the two editors involved in the originating dispute. Some outside opinions would be appreciated. --Ħ MIESIANIACAL 00:07, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Cairns Child Murders

I don't know if this will be notable enough for an article. I'm borderline about suggesting deletion. If it is kept, however, it will need to be renamed. -- Chuq (talk) 08:34, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Agree that it should be renamed, if kept. They're not "murders" until someone is convicted. This will become BLP issue - per WP:BLPCRIME - as soon as a suspect is named. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:37, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

I think they're murders when the coroner says so, before a perpetrator is necessarily identified. I think it's too soon to tell for certain if it's a notable event, but I hope that it stays one of the highest-ranked events for "number of deaths in one day from the same family in Australia" for some time to come. That makes it "notable" in a broad sense, time will tell if there are enough substantial references to make it notable in the Wikipedia sense. --Scott Davis ^Talk 13:04, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

A specific person has been arrested. I suggest that, per WP:BLPCRIME, the article ought to be renamed - "Cairns child killings" in the absence of any better ideas. Mitch Ames (talk) 22:56, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

... and so I have renamed the article. Mitch Ames (talk) 23:02, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Christmas traditions in Australia

Hi everyone, the section Christmas traditions#Oceania is quite thorough - I think this section, with additional references, could be suitable as a separate article Christmas in Australia and New Zealand. What do others think? I'd like to feature it on WMAU's social media channels in the coming days. In my experience the season reversal is always a topic of fascination by Northern hemisphere residents! -- Chuq (talk) 23:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Update: I've made the split - if anyone wants to help with the cleanup! -- Chuq (talk) 23:29, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Arthur Stace birthplace etc

Is there any 'controversy' about the birthplace and date of Arthur Stace, the guy who wrote Eternity all over Sydney for 35 years? See his entry from the Australian Dictionary of Biography (ADB) at Australian National University. This source says he was born in Redfern, New South Wales in 1885. However, his WP bio says (unsourced) Balmain, New South Wales in 1884.

IP editor 1.43.27.80 (talk · contribs) added him (and other unsourced text here) to Balmain, I reverted, listing the source in the summary and on their userpage, here. They have partly reverted me, here, saying in their summary:

"Arthur Stace, wikipedia page states born in Balmain Australia" - I reverted back (strike 2! for me

).

• Can someone tell me if the ADB is a reliable source? The editor also seems to be 'cherry picking' what part of the ADB source they do use, as they appear to trust it here, but then ignore that it says Stace's birth-date is different from other sources, that appear less reliable.

• And if possible can an independent editor check over their edits as they seem to be adding unsourced/ uncited/ non-MOS content to several pages (eg. Tom Uren and Arthur Stace), and are removing potentially useful redlinks. I have dropped several message templates, requesting edit summaries and 2 warnings re unsourced content on their talkpage, without any replies
TLDR! If I should take this to ANI or WP:RS/N instead please advise. 220 of ^Borg 12:46, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

oh what a mess thats being created, removal of links, adding unsourced material but some good edits are in there I think its a good faith editor who just needs some guidance to become productive WP:AGF and try to work with them for a bit longer, but I can see the frustration this will cause. Gnan garra 01:12, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

The trouble with saying that, Gnangarra, is that to work with someone you have to have their attention. I have yet to see any evidence that this IP has even read the posts 220 of Borg and i and others have put on their talk page, or read the edit summaries we have used; i certainly haven't seen any change in their behaviour due to either sources of communication from us. Advice? Cheers, Lindsay^Hello 04:31, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

@Gnangarra: Good faith-I hope so! (AGF getting .... strained, don't... get ... frustrated... deep breath ... Happy ... thoughts! .... turning green ... HULK SMASH!"

)
I'd be happier if they told me to 'naff off!'. What about the Australian Dictionary of Biography, a reliable source?

By the way, Gnangarra they reverted you here on Balmain re-adding Mr Stace!

That is 3RR, which I have warned them about, here! 2 edits to revert me, and a true revert of you, so they've leaned to use the (undo) button.
@LindsayH: I think they did use edit summaries, 6 times, somewhere after I requested them. ♦ 220 of ^Borg 05:08, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

I've dropped a note on their talk-page inviting them to come here to discuss, with a link to this section. • 220 of ^Borg 08:26, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the ADB is most definitely a reliable source. It's run by the national centre for biography at ANU. Of course there's mistakes in the content now and then but it is THE source for Aussie biographies. So, even if it's wrong, it's still worth footnoting as a counter-claim! The Dictionary of Sydney article, another reliable source, also gives the same date as the ADB, but it is probably taking the claim from the ADB. In fact...does anyone have a footnote from a RS that contradicts the ADB and affirms Balmain as the birthplace?? Witty lama 02:19, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

That's what I thought! Time to actually put a footnote for Staces birthplace and date on his page. There are sources or ext. lks there iirc that say Balmain 1884, but appear to be personal/self published webites that may be quoting each other or "'Everyone' knows ..." as they, iirc, don't give any sources as the 'Dict. Of Syd' does. That Being the ADB! ς 220 of ^Borg 03:49, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

So much for AGF. I changed all dates etc. as required, with a properly cited footnote for the birth-place/date on the page, here and they just changed the dates back! here .

However I was editing the page at the same time they were and saved over them, while keeping some apparently constructive edits. I think this editor is a Troll. I have also started a discussion on the Stace talkpage, here, pinging 1.43.27.8 to take part.
• They earlier put Category:Australian people of African descent on the page, which is a bit of an assumption, as his father was 'from' Mauritius. ∫ 220 of ^Borg 09:24, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

I checked the NSW Birth Index. He is registered as being born on 9 Feb 1885, so that's pretty definite. The registration district is Redfern, which many people wrongly think is the place of birth when it is the place of registration (very common error). However, generally the place of birth is either the same as the place of registration or not far away. So it does nothing to resolve the dispute over Redfern vs Balmain; you would have to buy the birth certificate to find out. I checked on Ancestry; he appears in a few family trees there, with Balmain, Redfern and Kogarah as possibilities. The man himself provided Parish of Kogarah as his place of birth in his WW1 enlistment. Listed as born in Balmain in FindAGrave. As a family historian, the fact that a number of people are saying Balmain when the (widely available) birth index says Redfern makes me think there must be some basis for the Balain claim (perhaps the birth certificate which some family historians are likely to have purchased). Unfortunately people are as bad at citing sources in family history as they are on Wikipedia! Until such time as someone indicates the birth certificate as their source (that's usually the trump card in these matters), I think it's best to let the place of birth be listed as all of the possibilities for which some citation exists (better to let the reader know there is some doubt about the location than try to dogmatically present one location as the "truth"). Kerry (talk) 23:57, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

It would also be necessary to check for any suburb boundary changes to identify the actual place of birth. Many suburb boundaries have changed since 1885. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:49, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

@Kerry Raymond: Fantastic, thanks for that National Archives link! It's a brilliant source. (downloading is a bit slow, and a bit 'twitchy' as sometime I kave to go 'back' then forward again to get the image to appear) I think part of the problem here is that his graves' headstone says he died at 83 years, so people are counting back to get 1884. Interestingly his headstone states middle name as "Malcom" not "Malcolm", stonemason errors? Apparently so, as your source states Malcolm. But people aren't always honest about their birth dates or even places, or make errors. His AIF papers put him at 26 in 1916 meaning born ≈1890! He was actually 311

A lot of those other sources are rather suspect. I went with the ADB which Wittylama at least considers pretty authoritative.

Merry Christmas to All !

220 of ^Borg 20:32, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Welcome template

Just thought I'd a reminder here about {{Welcome-au}} and ask users to place this on the talk pages when welcoming people who are editing Australian related content as it links them both to here and WMAU help email helpwikimedia.org.au Gnan garra 08:14, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

if there are any chapter members who would like to help answer these question please email. Gnan garra 08:16, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I've managed to use the template twice already! Let's help it helps keep new editors happy and productive! Kerry (talk) 08:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_December_30#Template:Infobox_Australian_road

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_December_30#Template:Infobox_Australian_road – proposed merging of {{Infobox Australian road}} with {{Infobox road}}. Thanks. Evad37 [talk] 02:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Its time for a complete overhaul of the way we use infoboxes the current one size fits all has become a barrier to participation, its is always one to first questions I get asked about articles when doing outreach and the one for which I receive the most requests for help afterwards. Gnangarra 12:26, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
- I'm all for infobox consolidation, as long as it doesn't make it more difficult for new editors. Some of the all-in-one infoboxes are so incredibly complicated that i have problems with them, and I've been programming for nearly 40 years. Computers I programmed are in museums. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:44, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
  - @Evad37: created a nested infox for me because the generic one didnt fit and realistically to get a modification to a one size its all was crazy. I think these boxes should be broken down into small components and then region specific section can added. Alternatively like the citation templates they should be utilising form fill function but until their usability is addressed they are the first thing a new editor encounters when they want to edit a page. Gnan garra 12:52, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Politician categories

Following a preliminary discussion here, I have opened a CfD discussion to address the complicated but long-overdue mess that is currently the categorisation of Australian politicians. I have no doubt that I have missed certain aspects so I hope that people will pitch in. Frickeg (talk) 02:12, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Serial IP pest of Oxley, Queensland seems to have returned

Speaking of obssesives ... A new IP address but Special:Contributions/58.161.227.114 is showing a familiar pattern of behaviour at Oxley, Queensland. However, they are getting a bit smarter by preparing their own article Draft:North Oxley with the same content as they were trying to add to the Oxley article. It look like they have realised that they need an account to create the article because this account Special:Contributions/Jonnyoxley was created and is helping out with the article, but does not seem to have reach confirmed user status so it looks like the plan to create the North Oxley article has been frustrated (well, until they work out how to get the account to confirmed status). Meanwhile the IP account has decided to engage in 3 acts of vandalism on Campbell Newman's article just to pass the time. Would an admin like to take some action here please. Thanks Kerry (talk) 01:20, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Macquarie Street Ninja

There appears to be something of a campaign underway to publicise what seems, at best, a minor incident. Great chunks of text have been added to New South Wales Legislative Council, Parliament House, Sydney, Parliament of New South Wales, Luke Foley, and, rather unbelievably, pepper spray, detailing in excruciating detail every reported aspect of this. I do not anticipate much disagreement that all of these are pretty whopping cases of undue weight, but does it really warrant a mention at all, anywhere? Frickeg (talk) 13:52, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Yup, I agree, being the first editor to have noticed the addition at the Legislative Council page. Weird, I thought. Frickeg, unless someone objects, it would be good of you to excise this undue stuff from all three articles in the next few days. If you can't manage it, let me know. Tony (talk) 13:58, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

I think the consensus is with Tony, it needs to be removed at all points on the undue issue. satusuro 14:06, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

I am not sure about a campaign as such. It's a relatively new user, and it looks like to me that they are proud of their first contribution and copying it into other loosely related articles. It's not a Single Purpose Account as such as there are other edits (mostly about the Eureka Flag). The material is cited etc so I think it's all in good faith, just a bit too much of it in too many places. I agree it's undue weight, but I think this is a situation where you need to explain what's happening to the user before you do anything (we don't want to discourage them from contributing). I would not suggest removing it everywhere, just reducing the number of articles and focussing it down to the key issue wrt to that article. There is a legitimate security issue in relation to the Parliament here, which apparently lead to a change of security protocols (but Foley's comment seems too much information). On the other hand, the article on Foley could retain a cut-down version of it but focussing more on the comment (which perhaps illustrates his sense of humour).

Looks like a somewhat familiar pattern of editing... Nick-D (talk) 23:11, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

I've just blocked this account as the latest sockpuppet of Gloriousrevolution (talk · contribs) (aka Premier (talk · contribs)) Nick-D (talk) 23:39, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Wow. The things people obsess over. Thanks for clearing this up, Nick. Frickeg (talk) 01:05, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Good move. Tony (talk) 03:07, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

And this had the happy effect of prompting the editor to reveal that Jodyrootes (talk · contribs) is another of their sockpuppet accounts. There also appears to have been a fair bit of IP socking going on... Not to mention a fair bit of COI editing. Nick-D (talk) 22:11, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Militant Islam in Australia

I've raised some concerns over this mew article which might benefit from broad input at Talk:Militant Islam in Australia. Nick-D (talk) 06:42, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

'Indigenous' vs 'Aboriginal'

Does anyone have a recent comprehensive reference source on usage (and etiquette) of these terms in Australia, please? I've opened a discussion at Talk:First Contact (TV series) which you are very welcome to chip into. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 02:31, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

see Indigenous Australians, when speaking in general terms or referring to statistical data use Indigenous unless talking about specific communities then one should use TI or Aboriginal as appropriate. Additional care should be exercise in talking about individuals as they may identify themselves within a multitude of communities Gnan garra 05:10, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

well established convention on wp en - have left a comment at users talk page. satusuro 07:51, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

It appears like a personal conversation regarding a significant change of article/category re-naming by two editors - the discussion really should come here, or to the more appropriate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indigenous_peoples_of_Australia - and a thorough and quite considered review is required, there is no way that such suggestions or personal opinions are left in a corner somewhere, it needs to be considered by the AWNB lurkers and others to be able to appreciate the ideas and the ramifications for the larger project. satusuro 08:10, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

"Indigenous" is handy when not wishing to expicitly exclude Torres Strait Islanders. If carefully handled, both terms can be used in a text to reduce repetition of "Aboriginal" (but again, only use "Aboriginal" when TSI is not at issue—for example when describing a particular person. And on first occurrence, it's sometimes good to use the full item, "Australian Aboriginal". Tony (talk) 13:30, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Talk page at Kilcoy, Queensland

I haven't got a lot of time to spare for Wikipedia anymore nut I do drop in from time to time, such as today. I did notice an interesting discussion at Talk:Kilcoy, Queensland that might need some cleaning up/investigation. The "discussion" - aside from being inappropriate for a talk page - appears very one sided. I suspect some very naive sockpuppetry. If someone has the time an inclination to clean up, it would be appreciated ... -- Mattinbgn (talk) 05:30, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes I agree - I have deleted the entire thread as it doesn't seem to be aimed at improving the article. Perhaps other editors may think that is a bit extreme though. Open to a different approach of cse. Anotherclown (talk) 06:13, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Given that living people were named (directly and indirectly), I've also revision deleted it. I tend to agree that it's likely that a single editor was talking to themselves here. Nick-D (talk) 09:28, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Nick. Makes sense. Anotherclown (talk) 03:25, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Weird title

My eyes continually jerk on "notice board" since I watchlisted this page. Why isn't it "noticeboard", as it is everywhere else? Tony (talk) 12:10, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Are you sure it's weird? The containing Category:Regional Wikipedian notice boards has 58 "notice board"s and only 3 "noticeboards". I did notice that one of the parent categories is Category:Wikipedia noticeboards, so the wider Wikipedia is not entirely consistent anyway. --Scott Davis ^Talk 13:23, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

That's a pity. My US Encarta dictionary says: noun, Brit.—a board for displaying notices. the term's list of lectures has been put on the noticeboard. an electronic noticeboard. There's no AmEng entry, strangely. What do Americans use??? And there's a hyphenated alternative redirecting to the closed version. Yeah, it does seem wrong to me. Tony (talk) 15:01, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

No idea what is used elsewhere but the Macquarie Dictionary uses "noticeboard". Does WP:TIES apply here? Hack (talk) 15:15, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Really? Is this what it has come down to? Worrying now about whether or not to include a space in a title that has existed for over 10 years with no concerns? If you don't like it, take Category:Regional Wikipedian notice boards to CfD, get the spelling changed and then we can move all the notice boards to match the category name. Or, alternatively, you can be more productive and fix up the far more serious problems that exist in Wikipedia articles. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:36, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:36, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

OK, I really have to ask this separately. Tony, as an Australian editor, why are you using a US dictionary to check Australian spelling? --AussieLegend (✉) 15:41, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Because WP:AWN was taken and WP:AWNb would drive us all batty. The-Pope (talk) 15:58, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
- Legend: first, I have clearly have higher standards than you do concerning language. If that is what "worrying" means, so be it. Now you can go off and do what you want to "fix up serious problems in Wikipedia articles"; I'll look at quality and thank you not to be bitchy.
  Second, I use the Encarta because it's comes on my desktop by default. It contains (marked) US and British spellings. What's your complaint now about that? Tony (talk) 00:57, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Tony, you "have clearly have higher standards" concerning language. Sorry, I know it's just a typo, but I love it when people boast about their language, spelling or grammar standards or point out others' errors, and then make an error themselves [quickly re-reads previous sentences for errors]. --Canley (talk) 03:09, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Tony, the fact that you're using an obsolete US dictionary (Encarta was discontinued in 2009) betrays your claim of superiority. My browsers use current dictionary add-ons and even the wiktionary entry for notice board seems more current than Encarta. I was not being bitchy, I was asking a serious question. Thanks for your response. Have a have nice have day have. --AussieLegend (✉) 03:44, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Confirmed bitchy—which is why no one takes any notice of you. Tony (talk) 08:29, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

That is completely inappropriate and out of line. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:38, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Also confirmed bitchy. Tony (talk) 11:13, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

This is more than inappropriate now. Your comments are dangerously close to being outright personal attacks. There is no need for this. Please be civil. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:55, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

You need to stop your tirade against me. It's no secret that you have disliked me for years. I suggest you back off and cease the harrassment. Tony (talk) 12:19, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Tirade? Really? I wasn't the one who started calling people bitchy just because they asked why you were using a US spelling checker to check Australian spelling. Tony, I have very little to do with you and have no feelings for you either way. You're simply not on my radar. I suggest you be mature in your interactions with other editors. This is becoming quite ridiculous. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:33, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Don't make assumptions that you are on "my radar", either. How laughable. Grow up. Tony (talk) 12:45, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Clearly, this is going nowhere. I must be on your radar because your claim that "It's no secret that you have disliked me for years" indicates this is something that affects you, otherwise you would not have said it. I'm not sure how this happened but please be assured that I neither like nor dislike you. Goodbye to you. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:52, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Clifton Pugh

didn't Uncle Clifton Pugh paint the present duke of Enderbura — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.143.106 (talk) 00:02, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes indeed.--Melburnian (talk) 05:30, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Category:Buildings and structures in Western Australia by road

Category:Buildings and structures in Western Australia by road, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.RevelationDirect (talk) 03:24, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Brooke Street Pier

I've recently created Brooke Street Pier and nominated it for a DYK. Does anyone know of any other floating buildings of this size (5300 tonnes) in Australia? News reports have referred to it as "Australia's largest floating building" but I can't find references to ANY other floating buildings including on Wikipedia - floating building is a redlink, even Floating dock (jetty) is pretty minimal. I even had to create Category:Floating structures as it didn't exist. -- Chuq (talk) 22:53, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

There was one in the 1980s on the Great Barrier Reef (4000t displacement I think) but it was relocated to Vietnam (see here). A 2012 study mentions only this one and no more in Australia. From what I can see it's the only significant current floating building in Australia - Peripitus (Talk) 23:13, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Great finds Peripitus! They are certainly a good starting point. I guess it is the challenge of how much research is someone expected to do and not find any larger buildings, before it can be considered as "the largest!" -- Chuq (talk) 09:56, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

There'd be a few floating oil rigs in Australian waters. Hack (talk) 16:09, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

They are called Floating production storage and offloading (FPSOs), and are basically more ship than building. The-Pope (talk) 16:53, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I wonder where the line is drawn - is a cruise ship a floating building? What about a ship permanently moored? (eg. SS South Steyne?) -- Chuq (talk) 23:09, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Rule of thumb, if it moves under its own power (or used to), its a ship/boat. If it was never designed to move without assistance, its either some type of barge or some type of floating structure. -- saberwyn 23:42, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

How much research is someone expected to do and not find any larger buildings, before it can be considered as "the largest!"? If you can find a reliable source that makes that claim, then you can use it with just a single reference. If you can't find any reliable sources that make the claim, then you can't make the claim on Wikipedia even if you've scoured every source on the planet. That would be RS. If reliable newspapers have made the claim then that's good enough for inclusion in the article. If someone can find another source that contradicts it, then we can worry about which is correct. Remember, we're interested in verifiability, not truth.Mark Marathon (talk) 23:52, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Saberwyn and Mark Marathon (BTW - I think you meant "OR" not "RS"?). Consensus on the DYK nomination page suggests the same, so the ABC source is fine. Still keen to create articles on any other Australian floating buildings people find :) -- Chuq (talk) 03:10, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

@Saberwyn: - Unless it's a floating dry dock apparently. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:33, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:ACTinttop and Template:NSWinttop

Template:ACTinttop and Template:NSWinttop have been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the templates' entry on the Templates for discussion page. Evad37 [talk] 01:11, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Template talk:Islam in Australia

Extra input appreciated here. Frickeg (talk) 04:44, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Rosie Batty

Rosie Batty has been announced as the Australian of the Year Award winner for 2015 (unfortunately, she was one of only two who didn't already have a Wikipedia article). I've created a stub article - but no doubt it will attract a lot of searches over the next day or so. -- Chuq (talk) 07:56, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Australia Day Honours list

The Honours list has been released - Order of Australia recipients are here: http://gg.gov.au/sites/default/files/files/honours/ad/ad2015/1_%20O%20of%20A%20gazette.pdf and a few others - I've updated post nominals for a few articles but it would be easier with a bot! -- Chuq (talk) 21:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm starting some articles for the Companions (ACs), there was only one: John Funder. I've started Jeremy Chapman and am working on Janice Reid. Done a few postnom updates when I see them. --Canley (talk) 01:33, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

CBD and South East Light Rail

Can we have some more eyes on this article? Some dude is adding a long and unsourced criticism section, ignoring any and all requests to take it to the talk page, and is breaking 3RR in the process. The Drover's Wife (talk) 00:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

See Talk:CBD and South East Light Rail#Criticisms. Mitch Ames (talk) 01:43, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Murder of Kylie Maybury

Could Australian editors, in particular, Melburnians, take a look at Murder of Kylie Maybury? There's no doubting the notability - it made the front page at the time, even pushing Reagan's win over Mondale over to the side. I'm still uneasy about using "handbag" by itself as handbag on its' own usually indicates the type used by adult women and little girl's handbags are smaller and have licensed themes such as Barbie and Disney. Paul Austin (talk) 06:04, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Murder_of_Kylie_Maybury&diff=644196877&oldid=644077686 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitch Ames (talk • contribs) 03:14, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Prince Philip's Australian knighthood

Should Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh include reference to the controversy around his Australian knighthood? Down Kitty (talk) 23:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Please comment at Talk:Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh#RfC: Prince Philip's Australian knighthood

Victorian Government Agencies

Hi,

I'll start by stating I work for the Victorian Department of Health and Human Services. I'll add that I'd be delighted to update the page of Victorian Government Agencies to reflect changes made to this department (the merge of the former Department of Human Services and the former Department of Health) on 1 January 2015.

Is this possible? Or is there no way to avoid a breach of the Wikipedia Conflict of Interest terms if I do this myself? Of course, I'd play it straight just not sure that's enough. Would love some guidance.

Thanks,

Damien — Preceding unsigned comment added by DamienDempsey (talk • contribs) 07:47, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Damien, first of all thanks for asking the question! Many new editors aren't aware of the COI rules, and some of those who are just don't worry about it! In general, the best way to go about it is to put suggested changes on the talk page - just add the text verbatim as you would have added it to an article. Someone will review it and add it on your behalf (if you don't get any replies after a few days, feel free to ask here). Reverting vandalism and correcting obvious factual errors yourself shouldn't be a problem. If the department can offer any freely licensed images (or allow access to others to do so) that would be of huge benefit to the project! -- Chuq (talk) 09:01, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

National Library of Australia and copyright

I confess to not understanding the complexities of copyright and IP in electronic capture of old paper documents. I've found a few maps through Trove that I'd like to use to illustrate articles such as Rail transport in South Australia and Transport in South Australia. The first ^[1] says it's probably out of copyright. The second ^[2] is older but says it's probably in copyright still. Both can be viewed online through the NLA viewer, and would look great in Commons to illustrate relevant articles instead of just as references. Can anyone help or advise? Thanks. --Scott Davis ^Talk 12:01, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

^ South Australia. Highways and Local Government Dept; South Australian Government Tourist Bureau (1950), South Australia showing main road system and important district roads, Highways & Local Government Dept. : M.E. Sherrah, Government photolithographer, retrieved 30 January 2015
^ Powell, H. E (1922), South Australian railways, H. E. Powell Photolithographer, retrieved 30 January 2015

The 1922 article is almost certainly out of copyright, but there appears to be some doubt as to its age which is probably why NLA is hedging their bets. Sometimes libraries will also try to claim copyright if restoration has been done on a work, which can be a bit of a grey area depending on how much restoration had to happen and how many creative liberties had to be taken. Have you tried contacting the NLA directly to ask for an opinion? Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 12:56, 30 January 2015 (UTC).

number 1 NLA copyright assessment states Since 2000 [Created/Published Date + 50 Years] so is out definitely out of copyright, number two NLA copyright assessment is incorrect as it refers to the author as considered alive(unrealistic, even if Powell was 15 when it was published he'd be 107/8 now) but the work is a map for SA government(fine print) so like number 1 created/published year +50 so copyright expired somewhere around Jan 1973 Gnan garra 13:47, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Change of Chief Minister in NT - newsreaders lament

Adam Giles has just lost a leadership vote to Willem Westra van Holthe.[4] Eyes may be needed on relevant pages. Hack (talk) 13:46, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Also bear in mind that Westra van Holthe most likely won't be sworn in until Wednesday although he is CLP leader now, so Giles is still Chief Minister until then, no? --Canley (talk) 21:12, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

There will be plenty of traffic to the Westra van Holthe page today, so any assistance expanding the current one paragraph stub would be much appreciated. --Canley (talk) 21:21, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Giles is still chief minister until his replacement is sworn in. The swearing-in may be delayed due to Giles' stalling tactics (it was to have happened half an hour ago but Giles has refused to resign).[5] Hack (talk) 02:11, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, and the Administrator can't swear Westra van Holthe in unless the position is vacant or he can demonstrate the confidence of the assembly. Interesting... --Canley (talk) 02:21, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Rather unusually, Giles is refusing to resign [6]. This is an interesting example of the kind of problems with articles being updated too early that we guard against every time there's a leadership change! Nick-D (talk) 03:14, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

It seems he thinks he can get the numbers with a couple of MPs apparently returning to the CLP. Hack (talk) 03:45, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Willem Westra van Holthe is apparently calling himself the “Chief Minister apparent”! [7] (which I guess is technically correct if he does have the numbers). Nick-D (talk) 03:48, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Intriguingly, the two ministers that Anderson and Lee wanted out when they quit the CLP (Conlan and Price) are on opposite sides of this split (Conlan backing Westra van Holthe, Price backing Giles). The Drover's Wife (talk) 04:05, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Aaand it didn't happen – Giles is remaining as leader and Westra van Holthe will be deputy chief minister.[8] --Canley (talk) 10:16, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for updating the articles. Nick-D (talk) 10:29, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Is anyone up for creating Country Liberal Party leadership spill, 2 February 2015 and Country Liberal Party leadership spill, 3 February 2015 articles ;) Nick-D (talk) 10:50, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

What an unholy mess. More seriously, I think Country Liberal Party leadership spill, 2015 is a badly needed article, since even in the CLP's fairly long history of internecine warfare that was a pretty epic chapter. The Drover's Wife (talk) 11:19, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

For anyone interested in doing that this timeline from the ABC would be a great reference to draw on. Nick-D (talk) 06:34, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Quick and dirty stub article created, I have two questions for those in the know:

Is "leadership spill" the best way to title this, since there seems to be some uncertainty as to whether the spill was in fact called correctly?
How do I refer to Willem Westra van Holthe? Is he "Westra van Holthe" or "van Holthe"? I've seen both in the press over the past couple of days.

Further improvements to the article are welcome, of course. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 10:59, 4 February 2015 (UTC).

Hansard have him as Mr Westra van Holthe and the NT government cabinet listing has Westra van Holthe in bold, indicating that is his surname.[9][10] Hack (talk) 11:39, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

QCoal scrubbing

The article for the coal mining company owned by one of the biggest donors to the Queensland Liberal National Party is being edited according to requests by the company (as stated in edit summaries) and from the companies IP address. The conflict of interest has been noted here. - Shiftchange (talk) 14:02, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

both IP's for white washing with a COI Gnan garra 01:49, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

And one of the IPs traces to QCoal... Pathetic Nick-D (talk) 03:38, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

If the article continues to be whitewashed by anonymous editors it should be semiprotected for a period of time. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 08:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC).

WikiConference Australia 2015

Wikimedia Australia is proposing to hold a national Wikimedia conference on 1-5 October 2015 in Brisbane. Please rush over to meta:WikiConference Australia 2015 to read all about it and give us your feedback on the discussion page there. Or if you prefer email to the WMAU committee at comm@wikimedia.org.au (this notice board is not the best place for such discussion because of its frequent archiving).

I must stress this event is in the early stages of planning and to proceed will depend on getting some grants and other financial support so we can offer it at an affordable price and also offer some assistance towards travel costs, as we would love to have you all be there to celebrate our successes as Australian Wikimedians and in the development of Australian content and for us to plan the future together. Kerry (talk) 09:08, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

the ever proceeding story

for as long as wikipedia exists - i think this thread will perpetually come around like seasons of the weather - currently at tony1's [11] talk page - the naming of places - it seems no one has ever established a final story on this issue to close the discussion.satusuro 02:08, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

I've changed SatuSuro's link to the specific section - which one might not guess otherwise... Mitch Ames (talk) 03:31, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Queensland Police nominated for renaming

Queensland Police has been nominated for renaming to Queensland Police Service. The discussion may be found at Talk:Queensland Police#Requested move 8 February 2015. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:30, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Slow edit war at Chris Sarra

The article on Chris Sarra appears to be subject to a slow edit war with anons working against each other. Paul foord (talk) 08:04, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Chinese berry recalls / Hepatitis A outbreak

At the moment I can only find a single sentence, "In Australia in February 2015 a recall of frozen berries was issued after at least 12 people contracted the illness following their consumption of the product" in the Hepatitis A article. I would have thought it is significant enough to warrant further coverage - possibly it's own article? Struggling to think of a good name - Chinese frozen berry scandal/scare/incident? or Hepatitis A outbreak in Australia? Nothing about it in List of food contamination incidents or Food safety incidents in China. -- Chuq (talk) 00:16, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I added an item in 2015 in Australia a few hours ago. --Canley (talk) 00:37, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure we need an article for every food poisoning incident. Nobody died ... How about one for the the Mystery Poisoning Deaths of Jondaryan which I stumbled upon when I was doing edit training at Oakey [12] Kerry (talk) 07:50, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

The 1995 Garibaldi mettwurst contamination seems to have generated a lot of coverage over the years. Hack (talk) 08:39, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I wasn't sure if we needed an article for every incident either, but I thought I'd ask given we already have quite a few at Category:Food safety scandals! -- Chuq (talk) 09:36, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I think it's a bit early for an article on the frozen berries outbreak; it'd inevitably wind up getting at least AfD per WP:NOTNEWS and I'm not sure they'd be wrong. I think this could very much change, depending on both the spread of the outbreak and the possibility of significant legislative fallout (i.e. the country of origin labelling that's suddenly shot to the top of the political agenda); for now, I think mention in 2015 in Australia is sufficient. I do think the Garibaldi incident absolutely warrants an article - it's still referenced now; hell, I still distinctly remember it from the time and I was nine when it happened. The Jondaryan one sounds like a potentially interesting topic too. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:15, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

The Mettwurst thing definitely had more impact, there was at least one death and life-long health issues including organ transplants, and appears to still be in the news as recently as 2011, see [13] Kerry (talk) 21:56, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Just thinking aloud. While I am not sure individually things like these berries are article-worthy, nonetheless they are all part of the larger issue of food safety in Australia, which has a number of aspects such as natural toxin issues here in Australia, the increasing import of foods from countries that are not subject to our food standards, etc. I note that there is a Food safety in New Zealand article but not one for Australia. I note we have a trans-Tasman Food Standards Australia New Zealand for a common set of standards on food safety. I think if we had a Food safety in Australia article, we could add these frozen berries into it, as well as use it as a place to document the bigger issues that underly these individual incidents. Kerry (talk) 22:07, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Just created Food safety in Australia. Just a stub but ready to add your incidents.Kerry (talk) 22:21, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I note that the the website of Food Standards Australia New Zealand is CC-BY, so makes creating text a lot easier. Kerry (talk) 22:25, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Good call on creating that article. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:26, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Greyhound baiting

I have started Australian greyhound racing live baiting scandal if anyone is interested in expanding it. Regards, WWGB (talk) 11:30, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but crikey, that sort of cruelty is just too depressing to think about, much less edit about, isn't it? Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 08:40, 20 February 2015 (UTC).

+1 from me on that. But good on those of you who do contribute to it, as it is certainly not something to be swept under the carpet. Kerry (talk) 01:31, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move for Pacific Motorway (Brisbane–North Coast NSW)

I have requested that Pacific Motorway (Brisbane–North Coast NSW) be moved. The move discussion needs some more input and may be found here. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:50, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Some more comments on this would really be appreciated. I know it's not as exciting as baiting greyhounds and getting infected with Hep A, but the discussion is going nowhere. --AussieLegend (✉) 05:56, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

John Gillespie Fine Cotton

Is John Gillespie (Fine Cotton) still alive? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.49.165.44 (talk) 11:16, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Still alive as of 2010 and couldn't find anything since to suggest he's died.[14] Hack (talk) 01:13, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Sex, religion and John Howard: Wikipedia's most controversial pages

Sydney Morning Herald article WWGB (talk) 04:12, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I saw that, and automatically wondered "How much of this is actually back-and-forth 'controversial' revert warring like the SMH article implies, and how much of this is simple, good old-fashioned vandalstomping?" 'Most vandalised' would probably be a better heading for that article. -- saberwyn 11:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

It's good to see John Howard beat List of Barney & Friends episodes and videos, although it wasn't by much. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Navy boss sunk by Wikipedia

Why don’t our top defence officials understand what submarines are on offer? WWGB (talk) 02:43, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Albert Langer/Victor Smorgon

Other eyes and opinions requested: an editor claiming to the daughter of political activist Albert Langer is repeatedly inserting an assertion that Langer is the brother of the late businessman and philanthropist Victor Smorgon. Aside from the fact that the claim appears to be unverifiable (the ABD reference does confirm that Victor Smorgon's father Norman married a Michelle Langer shortly before his death, but mentions no issue or children from Langer's previous marriage), the editor has inserted several negative statements concerning Langer in that article [15]. The claim is also given undue weight in the first sentence of both articles. --Canley (talk) 02:37, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Here's a source reporting the rumour (which attributes the claim to a book)

Webb, Christopher (3 January 2001). "Smorgon saga of sons and lovers". The Age. Hack (talk) 02:50, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I was trying to access that article on the Canberra Times and Factiva, but unsuccessfully. I will let the editor know. They would have been step-brothers at most. --Canley (talk) 03:09, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

This article also suggests a family link between the Smorgon family and Langer but doesn't give any detail. Hack (talk) 03:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

AusTalk

I'm not sure that Australian English phonology#AusTalk is the best location for this.

Should AusTalk get a mention under Variation in Australian English#Regional variation (see first [16])

Is it worth mentioning it under Australian English#Pronunciation?

Any ideas? Mitch Ames (talk) 04:15, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, if they were making the database available to the public, I'd say create its own article. But if that is not the case (and that's my reading of it), I am not sure it's any different to any other research data set out there in terms of being article-worthy. So I'd leave it where it is and just add a link from other articles to its section as desired. Aside, it would be nice to have a public database of pronunciation of Australian place names as I have seen a few articles arguing over pronunciation, most recently Cairns. It would be nice if we could offer an audio of Australians speaking those place names. Kerry (talk) 08:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

According to http://bigasc.edu.au/registration/register/, "The AusTalk corpus ... will be made broadly available for research on Australian speech and language. Unfortunately we are still negotiating the terms ... with our legal advisors. ... As a consequence, we cannot yet make the data widely available." Mitch Ames (talk) 08:35, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Ask them then. It will save a lot of speculation on our part. Kerry (talk) 22:45, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

If people are interested in open research data sets, the place to start looking is http://researchdata.ands.org.au/ Kerry (talk) 22:47, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

http://bigasc.edu.au/ refers to Alveo Virtual Laboratory, which apparently anyone can sign up for to get access to their databases, which includes AusTalk. 124.148.193.78 (talk) 02:10, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Inclusion of disqualified tracks on Hottest 100 2014 article

Administrator assistance has been sought for the Triple_J_Hottest_100,_2014 page. A slow edit war sustained by a new user account has attempted to include the disqualified Taylor Swift track within the official tracklist. There is ample mention of the Buzzfeed/Twitter campaign made within the text of the article. The continued attempt to include the track on the list adds no value to the article and has seemingly been made by disappointed supporters of the unsuccessful social media campaign. Administrator Cas Liber has placed a three day lock on the page and requested further consensus on the validity of the inclusion of the track on the official list [17]. Arguments against the inclusion of the track are listed on the article's talk page here and include:

The list should only contain the songs broadcast
Pages for other Hottest 100 years have only included actual results
Sufficient background on the social media campaign is made within the article, therefore its inclusion on the list is superfluous Bernie bernbaum (talk) 12:54, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Oxley, Queensland vandal returns

User:58.161.227.114 is back doing the same old edits to Oxley, Queensland, erasing mention of neighbouring suburbs, flooding, etc. Could an admin make them go away for a while please. This has been going on for months now! Kerry (talk) 14:12, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

The problem is this user isn't being warned. Prior to the warning I gave a few hours ago, the last warning was yours from October, despite several disruptive edits since then. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:30, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Pork Chop

Help on Australian idiom please. After winning the Queen Elizabeth Stakes on Reliable Man the Australian jockey Hugh Bowman said that he would not have been "carrying on like a pork chop" if he had known that the horse was injured. What does this mean? Tigerboy1966 13:48, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Google is your friend. WWGB (talk) 13:50, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

FAR O-Bahn Busway

I have nominated O-Bahn Busway for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:19, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Dictionary of Australian Artists Online

Hi. Not sure how many are aware of the DAAO now curated by UNSW. Anyway, it is a lovely resource of historical and contemporary Australian artists. If you are using their reference data, please note that I have had created a Wikidata identifier for DAAO d:property:P1707 which would ideally be added there as part of the data set. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:11, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Australian lists of roads table

Template:Australian lists of roads table has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. - Evad37 [talk] 10:23, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Please help with Dunghutti article

Can someone please fix this --> Dunghutti <-- article, someone's turned it into an absolute bloody mess. I think they think it's their personal webpage, I don't know where to start with fixing it. 58.7.138.46 (talk) 14:20, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't really know anything about this group but it's getting worse. The page has been moved a few times in the last 24 hours. Hack (talk) 17:17, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Boulton and Watt steam engine (Powerhouse Museum)

Please can someone provide an image (or series of images) of the Boulton and Watt steam engine at the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:06, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

I've found some CC images on Flickr and uploaded them to Commons: commons:Category:Boulton and Watt steam engine. I hope these help. ColonialGrid (talk) 07:42, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Good catch. Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:13, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Call to arms, Please help with Felix the cat article.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/rewind/txt/s1229985.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_the_Cat

The current wikipedia article try to claim Felix the cat was created by american "otto messmer" ...

Otto Messmer was involved in world war one when Australian Pat Sullivan drew & created Felix the cat in 1917.

Please help fix the facts & set the record straight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.202.249.15 (talk) 17:59, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Willy Moon

Please take a look at: https://www.facebook.com/rageabc/photos/a.196766868707.159661.195235013707/10153206999043708/?type=1 I have no idea who Willy Moon is and what content is accurate - from the history the article has been frequently edited for the past couple of days - I have to go AFK for the next couple of hours - could someone take a look? -- Chuq (talk) 06:04, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

noted at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Willy_Moon as well it likely to spread to a number of other articles Gnan garra 07:04, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Australian feminist writers

Making news today: Where are all the Australian feminist writers on Wiki? #womenonwiki. Might be worth watching and helping with. --99of9 (talk) 00:16, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

are her specific suggestions. Bluelinks now in cat (thanks @JaneWolf:). --99of9 (talk) 00:27, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

How are we defining feminist? Hack (talk) 02:48, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Self-identification I assume. --99of9 (talk) 03:52, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

But what does that actually mean? For example, Mungo Maccallum and Clive James have both described themselves as a feminists, so do they belong on this list? Or is it only for female writers who self-describe as feminist? In that case, do the likes of Colleen McCullogh belong in the list if they have described themselves as feminists, or is it only for women who have self-described as feminists and whose works deal with "feminist" subjects? And in that case, how do we define a feminist subject?Mark Marathon (talk) 04:22, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I'd avoid making up rules and include them all (when ever you have self-identification reported by a reliable source). I guess similar discussions have been had elsewhere? --99of9 (talk) 05:52, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Following the precedent of most of the sporting categories, the parent category should contain only female feminists and a single subcategory should contain male feminists. Hack (talk) 06:02, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

99of9, I'd be reticent to make the category so broad because it runs the risk of becoming non-defining. For writers under the age of 60, it would be shorter to make a list of writers who aren't feminist than writers who are. If we end up with a category that includes 75% of all writers since 1960, which is highly likely IMO, then what exactly does inclusion in the category mean? It would seem to equivalent to having a list of capitalist writers or abolitionist writers that literally include all writers who support capitalism and have a stated anti-slavery stance. Achievable, but hardly defining in the 21st century.

Hack, I couldn't work out what you meant until I looked at Category:Australia Test cricketers. WTF? Sports categories list all the male sportspeople as "Cricketers" and have a separate sub-category for female sportspeople? That's so bizarre even I find it somewhat offensive. Has anyone tried to change this so that there are separate subcategories for men and women? But, yeah, if that's the way Wikipedia categories work, it's a small redress to do apply your standards to the feminist categories.Mark Marathon (talk) 06:24, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

@Mark I guess I'll narrow my suggestion to: self-identification as a ~~"feminist writer"~~ "feminist" and a "writer", and a primary or secondary reliable source identifying them as a "feminist writer". But I'm no expert, and the parent category contains many countries who must have already had discussions like this. --99of9 (talk) 06:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

(EC) @Hack: I'm not sure it's directly comparable to sport, where (usually) their gender means they play in different competitions. It's more comparable to the huge debate about Category:American women novelists, and it looks like the conclusion on that was to use non-diffusing categories. --99of9 (talk) 06:29, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

@99of9: WP:Cat gender is pretty weak on this issue. @Mark Marathon: there have been a few discussions but it never goes anywhere. Hack (talk) 10:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

My 10c worth is just write the articles and put them in Category:Australian writers. If there is a desire to put them in some other category like Category:Australian women writers or similar, I would put them there without removing them from Category:Australian writers. While there were many points of view in relation to the American categories, the main cause of offence seemed to come from the fact that the women writers were perceived as not wanted/welcome/worthy to be the main American category. While it is legitimately argued that articles are being placed in a sub-category are automatically "in" the parent category, if people cannot easily *see* the article listed within the category, of course they are likely to form the view that it is not "in" the category. This could be fixed if the software allowed a complete recursive listing of the category, but it does not offer this option (presumably because it is computationally very expensive). Kerry (talk) 22:36, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

... and don't forget to put all the Australian men writers or similar into their own category. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:51, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Wouldn't a feminist writer be a writer whose works were notably about or from a consciously feminist perspective, rather than a writer who simply happens to hold feminist views in addition t their published works? For example, Clive James is clearly a feminist in real life, but his works are not notably about feminism. He is a feminist and a writer, but not a feminist writer. Germaine Greer, however, is a feminist, a writer and a feminist writer.

Other than that contribution to semantics, I agree with Kerry that the parent category can simply be Australian writers. As an addition, if we do need a subcategory of australian feminist writers, then it could easily be both males and females as the distinction marking the subcat is feminist writing, not individual gender. You could have a sub-subcat of australian female feminist writers and australian male feminist writers, but I think we'd reach a law of diminishing returns with that level of specificity. --Euryalus (talk) 04:57, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. I don't think we are likely to come up with a reliable "is this person a feminist" test. But when the media trumpets "where are the Australian feminist writers on Wikipedia?", they are asking for missing articles to be written not about creating a category, so let's focus on articles not categories. Kerry (talk) 07:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Good advice. -- Euryalus (talk) 10:00, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Journalists, and to some extent academics, just love labels, don't they. Tony (talk) 15:07, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Fremantle Prison#Main Cell Block RFC

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Fremantle Prison#Main Cell Block RFC. Is "Main Cell Block" a proper noun – i.e. should it be capitalised? Thanks. Evad37 [talk] 06:09, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Pacific Motorway (Sydney–Newcastle)

Another editor has decided that "F3" was never actually the route number of the former F3 Freeway simply because route signs were never used on the road. We've been discussing this on my talk page, but he's decided to edit-war at the article, so I've moved the discussion to the talk page to formalise it and get some more input. The discussion may be found here. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:26, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Internet television in Australia

Hi all, I'd welcome input from fellow Australians at Talk:Internet television in Australia#Article restructure. The article doesn't even mention Stan, Presto or Netflix once, so clearly needs an update. -- Chuq (talk) 03:02, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Australia–New Zealand relations

FYI, suspicious edit here, at Australia–New Zealand relations by 'new' editor Blancmagne (talk · contribs) On their 11th edit btw, so able to edit the page that was protected just yesterday by Nick-D? (Who I have advised already) Very similar edit removed 4 times this year. Possibly long banned LTA account DavidYork71? - 220 of ^Borg 13:37, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Far too suspicious for my liking. Six of Blancmagne's edits have been single-byte edits, the addition of a space at the end of headings to boost the edit count. I've reverted the edit at Australia–New Zealand relations. --AussieLegend (✉) 14:05, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Ah yes, they are too. Very 'sus'! – 220 of ^Borg 14:19, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Blocked as sock of User:Digger Nix, who others have previously identified as DavidYork71. -- Euryalus (talk) 19:37, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Another editor has appeared, Cundwipe who made the same reversion to a 2012 version of the article. --AussieLegend (✉) 16:06, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

It's baaaaaaack....

Animal attacks. Disappointed that koalas, mosquitoes and magpies aren't listed. And no {{WPAUS}} project tag either! The-Pope (talk) 04:04, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I started to research koala attacks but kept coming across nasty post-attack photos. Who needs Drop Bears? Hack (talk) 08:46, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

It's a happy day when Animal attacks#Roosters and Animal attacks#Swans and Animal attacks#Cats are blue links :) But yeah, this should be deleted. Nick-D (talk) 09:06, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

LOL. I bit the bullet and prodded it. I can't imagine how this article could meet any real standards of notability and global coverage.--Scott Davis ^Talk 11:16, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Screw the drop bears. I'm now scared of ants and Komodo dragons. Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised if this has to go to AfD. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:51, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I figured I'd try the easy way first. Maybe someone will turn it into a meaningful article about deaths over the years from animal attacks in North America (noting the national wikiprojects on the talk page) --Scott Davis ^Talk 13:06, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

The easy way didn't work.[18] Just to refresh everyone, the original discussion is here. --AussieLegend (✉) 17:36, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Do you think this is a good reference? Best Regards, Bfpage |leave a message 14:36, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

No, its content is user-generated so it doesn't qualify as a reliable source. --AussieLegend (✉) 17:28, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I found the reference to the original discussion to which someone has referred and thought I would make a few comments regarding what was written in the past and what the article is meant to be now. First of all, I wanted to create an article that even a third grader could love. Second, I have carefully, though probably not perfectly made the distinction between apparent non-provoked animal attacks and all the rest. This article excludes animal attacks that have occurred in zoos or animal parks or attacks on hunters. I have done my best to exclude attacks that were made while an animal was being confined or restrained. I have excluded information that would speculate on the causes of the attacks such as habitat encroachment, the impaired hunting ability of aged tigers or even some speculations in news stories where elephants were seeking revenge. Best Regards,

Bfpage |leave a message 18:23, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

p.s. I'd like to see the original, deleted article if some administrator can resurrect it for me and put into a draft/user page for me to look at.

In 2009, the range of attacks articles grew and shrunk (edit history of above redirects reveal the fate of the articles and the particular enthusiast of the time), however, do not despair, there still exists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Animal_attacks_in_Australia and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_snake_bites_in_Australia - and I would strongly suggest that enthusiasts in either direction consider that there is always the potential for the issue to rise its venomous head again at any point... satusuro 00:05, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

NRL on Nine

Can someone from NSW/Qld please advise if Nine Network's Rugby League coverage (NRL on Nine) is notable enough that it necessitates it's own article? My instinct is "no" ... but the article has been around (orphaned) since 2005. -- Chuq (talk) 12:39, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

No, basically. It's always branded as WWoS, which may be suitable for an article, but it covers a lot more than rugby league. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 12:47, 1 April 2015 (UTC).

Australian green tree frog

I have nominated Australian green tree frog for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. DrKiernan (talk) 08:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

The Southport School

I just happened to go to edit The Southport School and discovered it's been vandalised and suffered a range of other abuses over teh past 12 months. Some of these were reverted along the way, but much has gone unnoticed for about 12 months and has reached the stage where it is no longer easy to revert. Would it be appropriate for me to restore it back to this version [19] from nearly 12 months ago which seems to look OK to me. I think there have been only a very few trivial good-faith changes to this article since that version (which would be lost), but the rest has been vandalism and copyright violations etc. Is it possible to semi-protect it to slow down the rate of vandalism? Kerry (talk) 03:55, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Nick-D and I have done some cleanup, but much of the "Early history" section looks like it could substantially be a copyvio. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:45, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

The whole thing was either copied without attribution or copied from the referenced sources. I've edited it down to just the 1934 image....which looks to be ok - Peripitus (Talk) 08:57, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks everyone for your help. It looks like the obvious vandalism has been cleaned up now. Kerry (talk) 11:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Sydney Opera House

Would appreciate some comments at Talk:Sydney Opera House#Bolding and / or Italicising of venue names in a list. It's only a minor issue but, as always, there are far few editors watching articles such as this. --AussieLegend (✉) 08:22, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Sydney public transport nominated for deletion

Template:Infobox Sydney public transport was nominated for deletion nearly 3 weeks ago. The discussion is here. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:14, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Template:Infobox TransLink (SEQ) bus station nominated for deletion

Template:Infobox TransLink (SEQ) bus station was nominated for deletion nearly 3 weeks ago. The discussion is here. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:17, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

POV pushing

We appear to have a case of POV pushing at Upper Hunter Shire. I've twice reverted the OR that has been added and a polite note on the {new) editor's page resulted in the accusation "you are in fact a troll known as (Redacted) who is a keen supporter of (Redacted) who is censoring ANY information which he and his faction of Councillors simply don't like",[20] so I'm not hopeful. Some more eyes would be appreciated. --AussieLegend (✉) 10:50, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

FAR

I have nominated South Australian state election, 2006 for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.--Jarodalien (talk) 00:56, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Sports team bids

Should we have articles like this Central Queensland NRL bid or Western Corridor NRL bid? They are just a proposals. Wouldn't it be better to have an article (or not) based on an outcome? Are bids really establishments? Sure they make the news but so did the bidding for a new casino in Brisbane. In that case, whatever project gets approved would be the one that gets an article. Shouldn't the same principle apply to sports team bids? I mention it here in order to have a discussion which includes non-sports enthusiasts. - Shiftchange (talk) 00:59, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

No articles about bids - Such articles are contrary to WP:RECENTISM and WP:NOTNEWS. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:21, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
I think this should happen on a case-by-case basis. There are some sports team bids with substantial coverage over long periods of time that make for encyclopedic coverage and pass the GNG easily. There are others that was just one proposal by one group at one point in time that would fall under WP:NOTNEWS. I disagree with throwing them all in the same boat. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:23, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
- I agree with the case-by-case arrangement. The Tasmanian AFL bid is probably the most prominent example, but anything which has reliable sources should be acceptable. -- Chuq (talk) 11:09, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Infobox Australian Electorate proposal

An editor has proposed that fields for nearby electorates, similar to this provided in {{Infobox Australian place}} be added to {{Infobox Australian Electorate}}. Please participate in the discussion, which may be found at Template talk:Infobox Australian Electorate#Nearby Electorates. Tnak you. --AussieLegend (✉) 08:30, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Flag of Australia FAR

I have nominated Flag of Australia for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:55, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Public houses, pubs, hotels

There is a proposal to replace the name "public house" in a lot of categories with "pub"? This would affect Category:Public houses in Australia and its sub-categories. I don't any particular issue with the renaming per se, other than the problem that in this era of relaxed licensing, what exactly is the difference between a public house, pub, hotel, tavern, bar, nightclub, noting we also have categories for hotels? Plus there are list articles floating around too. Anyhow, I thought the issue might be of interest to others. Kerry (talk) 22:14, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Don't know about other places but in WA there are different liquor licences for pubs (hotels), taverns, bars and nightclubs. Hack (talk) 01:41, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Earth 2015

Wikimedia Australia has been approached to see if we wish to be involved in the Wiki Loves Earth photography competition this year - similar to the Wiki Loves Monuments competition, but focusing on natural heritage (protected areas / national parks).

Is anyone interested in forming a small team to work on the requirements for the competition, as shown on the above page? (Just below this section.) Note the competition starts (in most countries) on 1 May so there isn't a lot of time left to get started, although most of the lists of protected areas already exist - Protected areas of Australia and associated pages.

Note that the WLE page does not specify that chapters are necessarily involved, so while WMAU supports the idea in principle it would be a reasonably autonomous group - of course all members of the community are welcome. -- Chuq (talk) 03:38, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

While I can't commit to this activity I think its a great idea. Some readers may not be aware that in an unrelated program Wikimedia Australia supports Australian editors interested in photography through a number of grants. The sponsored media is found in this category. - Shiftchange (talk) 08:05, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder @Shiftchange: I encourage Wikimedian photographers to visit that grants page in case we can assist! -- Chuq (talk) 00:02, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Depending on what's involved, I'm happy to help out, particularly with regard to the Protected areas of Queensland. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:02, 15 April 2015 (UTC).

Thanks @Lankiveil: I've had a couple of responses via email as well so will organise a mailing list. Anyone else who is interested is still welcome! -- Chuq (talk) 00:02, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

WikiConfererence Australia 2015 - update

Just letting you know that, having taken on board the feedback, we are now going with a 2-day conference (Saturday 3 October and Sunday 4 October) with an optional 3rd day (Monday 5 October) for specialist topics (unconference discussions, training sessions, etc). The venue is the State Library of Queensland in Brisbane. So put those dates in your diary! Note: Monday is a public holiday is some states but not others. Read about it here: WikiConference Australia 2015

As part of that page, there are now sections for you to:

indicate your interest in possibly attending the conference (this is not a binding commitment, of course)
add suggestions for topics to include in the conference: what you would like to hear/discuss (again, there is no commit to you presenting/organising that topic, although it’s great if you are willing to do so), or indicate your enthusiasm for any existing topic on the list by adding a note of support underneath it

It would really help our planning if you could let us know about possible attendance and the kind of topics that would make you want to come. If you don’t want to express your views on-wiki, please email me at kerry.raymond@wikimedia.org.au or committee@wikimedia.org.au

We are hoping to have travel subsidies available to assist active Australasian Wikipedians to attend the conference, although we are not currently in a position to provide details, but be assured we are doing everything we can to make it possible for active Australian Wikipedians to come to the conference. Kerry (talk) 08:32, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Congratulations to Rocketrod1960 for completing the set of articles for Members of the Queensland Legislative Council!

I would just like to say a public thank-you to Rocketrod1960 for his tireless persistance in ensuring every Member of the (now defunct) Queensland Legislative Council has an article. He has been plugging away on this task for months and finally finished it last night. Of course, many editors have contributed to this topic area over the years, so I extend my congratulations to all involved as we reach this milestone. Kerry (talk) 22:27, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

An incredibly impressive effort! Well done! I believe that makes four state and territory houses of parliament with every member covered now (the others being the SA LC and NT and ACT LAs). The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:19, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

A truly amazing piece of work - especially since they aren't all stubs but are almost all substantial articles. Bravo! Frickeg (talk) 11:29, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

This is very impressive - congratulations to all involved. Nick-D (talk) 11:31, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh wow, I assumed you meant all the *current* members... then I looked. This is amazing. Well done Rocketrod1960. --99of9 (talk) 11:37, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, thank you. Now for the Queensland Legislative Council Rocketrod1960 (talk) 05:14, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Really good work, Rocket; thank you indeed. Being a get-rid-of-upper-houses guy, I find the history of that chamber very interesting. Qld, NT, ACT, and NZ all birds of a feather.

This incidentally brings up something I've been meaning to raise here—not aimed at any set of Australian politician articles in particular. A few months ago I went through a lot of the articles on current Australian politicians—federal, state/territory. A few patterns came up in many of them that I queried. First, the use of the "Children" field in infoboxes; unless relevant or notable, I removed. Metrics on children are often considerably less stable than spouse. Some infoboxes gave names and ages (?!)—like "Damian, aged 3; Patricia, aged 4; and Joseph, aged 6" ... really? A second issue was the slight POV aroma around family values and the normalisation of heterosexual family units as A Good Thing and Entirely Wholesome. I'm not sure we should be encouraging badges of familydom in such a prominent and official way. Second, "Australia", and common terms such as occupation names, were all too often linked. Third, there was rampant capitalisation of job positions (Secretary of the local business association, union). This is discouraged by MOS and the big external styleguides.

You might be interested that as I worked through them I became aware of the patterns suggestive of contributions by the politicians themselves, or more probably, their staffers or others who know and support them. ... which is why it's good to have independent editors such as Rocket creating and maintaining such articles. :-)

Tony (talk) 12:10, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Tony, after reading about the history of the upper house in Queensland and how T.J. Ryan and Ted Theodore set about to at first reign it in and then in the end, destroy it, I became fascinated by the whole saga, starting in 1860 onwards. It was amazing just how many of the appointees (until the 1900's anyway) were U.K. born, Protestant, and owned loads of pastoral land.

I don't think I ever filled in the children section of the infoboxes, let alone putting their ages. I did add the relatives who have articles or intended articles on here though. Rocketrod1960 (talk) 02:18, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Relevant move request

There is a move request at Talk:Epping (disambiguation) that members of this project may be interested in. Egsan Bacon (talk) 14:39, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

WikiConfererence Australia 2015 - Save the date 3-5 October 2015

Our first Australian conference for Wikipedians/Wikimedians will be held 3-5 October 2015. Organised by Wikimedia Australia, there will be a 2-day conference (Saturday 3 October and Sunday 4 October) with an optional 3rd day (Monday 5 October) for specialist topics (unconference discussions, training sessions, etc). The venue is the State Library of Queensland in Brisbane. So put those dates in your diary! Note: Monday is a public holiday is some states but not others. Read about it here: WikiConference Australia 2015

As part of that page, there are now sections for you to:

indicate your interest in possibly attending the conference (this is not a binding commitment, of course)
add suggestions for topics to include in the conference: what you would like to hear/discuss (again, there is no commit to you presenting/organising that topic, although it’s great if you are willing to do so), or indicate your enthusiasm for any existing topic on the list by adding a note of support underneath it

It would really help our planning if you could let us know about possible attendance and the kind of topics that would make you want to come. If you don’t want to express your views on-wiki, please email me at kerry.raymond@wikimedia.org.au or committee@wikimedia.org.au

We are hoping to have travel subsidies available to assist active Australasian Wikipedians to attend the conference, although we are not currently in a position to provide details, but be assured we are doing everything we can to make it possible for active Australian Wikipedians to come to the conference. Kerry (talk) 00:19, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Is it possible someone important from the Wikimedia Foundation might be able to attend and make a presentation? That might be a strong drawcard. - Shiftchange (talk) 06:31, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

It is something we are negotiating at the moment. Watch this space. Kerry (talk) 00:50, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

You may wish to contact the NLNZ's DigitalNZ team. they are now harvesting Wikiproject New Zealand's content into DigitalNZ (based on article ratings) and may be able to send someone (physically or electronically). Stuartyeates (talk) 02:55, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Great suggestion, Stuart! Kerry (talk) 04:46, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Multi-party infoboxes

Further input (for the brave of heart) appreciated here. Frickeg (talk) 13:33, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

AfC submissions

Draft:James S Stening and Draft:John Cato. They appear quite promising. What do you reckon? FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:13, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the alert. They look good, so I have accepted them. Though do we know if John Cato is still alive? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:34, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

That's awesome! Thanks for that. I found yet one more: Draft:H H Tilbrook. As for Cato, I do believe he died in 2011, according to a chached version of this. Cheers, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 22:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Not sure this one makes the mark: Draft:Ruth Maddison. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 01:58, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

While I am sure it was not intended as such, I cannot help but notice the sequence: Man Yes, Man Yes, Man Yes, Woman No. I am not an expert in notability of photographers, but I cannot see why she is less notable than the others? She has won awards (which some of the others have not). There are plenty of citations etc. Kerry (talk) 00:55, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

I have accepted this as an article. She has also exhibited at all the top galleries in Australia. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:54, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Are we seeing some kind of classroom assignment or edit-a-thon or other group activitiy here? Just seems a little strange that everyone is writing biographies of photographers all of a sudden and the name User:Louibu pops up in most of the histories (the organiser?). Not that there is any harm in it, just merely curious. Kerry (talk) 01:06, 7 May 2015 (UTC)\

I'm a teacher at a photography school in Melbourne, Australia. The articles were an assignment for the history students. I have submitted for publication the articles I thought most publishable at the moment. It's the first time I've worked with Wikipedia for a school assignment. If you have any suggestions on process I'd be happy to hear them. Overall we are all very proud of the work submitted! Louibu (talk) 07:43, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Louibu. Well done to you and your team on the articles. You should all be proud of your work - the articles are great and have improved our coverage of an underrepresented topic.

If you are looking for advice on process, the following might be useful but don't feel you have to follow these essays, what you are doing is just fine.

Again, well done and welcome! -- Mattinbgn (talk) 08:47, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Wow, you are organised! - Education Program:Photography Studies College/Image Cultures 1 (1). Great work! -- Mattinbgn (talk) 08:56, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Would just like to add my appreciation of this whole concept, and say that the whole thing has been terrifically organised and really nicely researched (I'm talking specifically Wikipedia practice here: taking a look at that program page Mattinbgn linked above gives me hope, it really does). Even if not all the articles are necessarily accepted this will be a fantastic contribution to Wikipedia, and I even dare hope we might end up retaining a couple of these new editors. Frickeg (talk) 11:33, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, very well done. As someone who does edit training and supports edit-a-thons, I am impressed at how well your class is doing, particularly as you are quite a new contributor to Wikipedia yourself! Keep up the great work! Kerry (talk) 22:08, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your generous comments, Kerry, Frickeg and Mattinbgn. They are very encouraging. The students learned much about how Wikipedia works with this assignment, not to mention their research subject. Louibu (talk) 02:15, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Not everything is going smoothly. THere is Draft:Edward Cranstone which I am not prepared to accept with the references in the state they are, but perhaps someone can fix them or find the ones on the bottom to see what facts they confirm. A couple of others have been knocked back already. Draft:Hans Hasenpflug and Draft:Warren Breninger have the big pink box and so should be fixed. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:48, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your work reviewing the articles, Graeme. Some of the students clicked the "submit draft" button either inadvertently or prematurely. I wasn't sure how to reverse that. Do you have any suggestions? 09:29, 8 May 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Louibu (talk • contribs) Louibu (talk) 09:38, 8 May 2015 (UTC)Louibu (talk) 09:39, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

If no one else has changed the article since they clicked submit, then they can go to the history pick the latest revision and do "undo", or they can edit a previous version and save that. But if others have edited,and left a pink box, they can still fix it up and submit it again. The decline is unlikely to be the finale word, unless it turns out to be a total copyright violation and is deleted. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:56, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Landing ship, infantry

Does this topic fall under your project? I notice that it lists the RAN as an operator. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 03:02, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

I would say no to tagging for this article (which reflects the concept as a whole), but note that individual LSI ships operated by the Royal Australian Navy (such as HMAS Manoora (F48)), are tagged for WP:Aus. -- saberwyn 07:10, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Record Sales certification CFD discussions

A number of categories relating to sales certifications by ARIA have been listed for deletion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2015_May_9#Category:Singles_certified_by_the_Australian_Recording_Industry_Association. Participation from those in the know would be most helpful. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 12:46, 12 May 2015 (UTC).

Redland City

Would it be possible to get Redland City protected from the current edit warring? The article has been used as a bit of a soapbox and its now causing disruption. Cleveland, Queensland has also been padded with details on the development of Toondah Harbour. - Shiftchange (talk) 06:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

One of the accounts concerned has now been blocked and it looks like they're not coming back, so I figure that protection is not necessary at this point. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 09:59, 16 May 2015 (UTC).

Notability question

Could someone here tell me whether a "lifelong citizen award in the Australia Day honours" would be enough to make somebody notable? Thanks! --Randykitty (talk) 14:46, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

It depends what specific Australia day honour they received. The Drover's Wife (talk) 16:43, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

"Lifelong citizen award" is the only specification given... Looking closer at the source, I have the impression that this is a purely local thing, not a real Australia Day Honours. --Randykitty (talk) 17:03, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, it looks to be a Shire of Leeton award. Definitely not enough to make somebody notable on their own! The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! --Randykitty (talk) 05:39, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Not sure it is the same person anyway - This source has him living on the family farm in Leeton, NSW not growing up in Colac, Vic (1,000+ km away). -- Mattinbgn (talk) 05:50, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Request verification for paywalled news article

Does anyone have access to the paywalled section of The (Adelaide) Advertiser's news website, specifically this article? I want to verify this edit made to Hobart-class destroyer, because I think it is incorrect, or at least misinterpreted: a 3-year blowout on a defence project already 2+ years behind schedule should have more of the media screaming, and four years to fit out a ship launching this month is insanely excessive. If anyone could doublecheck the article, or even better, send me a copy of the text, I would greatly appreciate it. -- saberwyn 00:16, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

@Saberwyn: In my news database the article is titled "Getting up close with our first mega warship", but yes, it says "The Hobart is scheduled to be handed to the navy in March 2019, while delivery for the other two ships, Brisbane and Sydney, is yet to be finalised."^[1] The Australian says "it will not be delivered until June 2017 at the earliest"^[2] --99of9 (talk) 01:01, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

^ STARICK, P. (2015, May 21). Getting up close with our first mega warship. The Advertiser Retrieved from [1]
^ Sheridan, G. (2015, May 22). Warships cost blows out to $9bn. The Australian Retrieved from [2]

you can often bypass the individual masthead's paywalls by replacing the specific paper's url with "news.com.au", ie http://www.news.com.au/national/first-look-aboard-adelaide-built-air-warfare-destroyer-the-hobart/story-e6frfkp9-1227361994484. Bizarre, isn't it. The-Pope (talk) 03:09, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Or just google the story name. Tony (talk) 03:32, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the assistance, everyone. -- saberwyn 07:07, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Australian Flag FARC!

The Flag of Australia has been a Featured Article since 26 January 2006 (Coincidence? I think not...) but is now FARC'd. Basically, it needs some work:

The references need to be tidied up; web links need access dates and books need more details;
Unreferenced sentences and paragraphs need references (or to be removed entirely);
Some dated "as of 2005" type statements need to be re-checked or removed.
Finally, once that is done, we need a copy editor to go over the article and remove some choppy prose, consolidate some one sentence paragraphs

I can post a more detailed work list. The article was brought up to scratch by a working bee a decade ago, and just needs some work. All the original contributors are dead, missing, uncontactable, or indef'd by ArbCom. Can we find some volunteers willing to stand up and help fix it up? Hawkeye7 (talk) 09:27, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

AfC submission

Draft:James Frederick Porter. Care to comment? Thanks, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 23:53, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

really 6 sources, 5 different authors published between 1963 and 2010.. subject meets WP:N, WP:V and WP:RS so unless you think the creator has a WP:COI be WP:BOLD Gnan garra 01:17, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Accepted. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:08, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Another three for you guys: Draft:Pollution in the Hawkesbury-Nepean River, Draft:The Committee for Sustainable Retirement Incomes and Draft:Juliet Moore (architect). Thanks, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:37, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

The first is a bit of a point of view that may or not be more suitably merged to the river(s) articles, second accepted, but needs cleanup, and the third knocked back to look for suitable references. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:14, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

What about Draft:Leah King-Smith? Doesn't seem to pass notability. And Draft:Norman C Deck? An obit in The Age and an exhibition in a minor gallery...Best, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 16:01, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

I have accepted both. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:08, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Notable actor?

Draft:Edward Howell (actor). FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:32, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

The Australian Dictionary of Biography is basically the source for Australian biography: it's a peer-reviewed acknowledgement of notability and anyone who has an entry is way over the bar of WP:GNG. However, it does need to actually link to his article. The Drover's Wife (talk) 15:35, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I have declined this, due to lack of references. But anyone is free to add references and take it to mainspace. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:34, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

@Graeme Bartlett: - but it was referenced to the ADB. It wasn't well-cited according to Wikipedia standards, but it had an incredibly solid reference and a very strong claim to notability. I don't think that was helpful. The Drover's Wife (talk) 09:44, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

As I said, anyone is free to improve this or reverse my rejection and accept it. I did not reject this based on non-notability, just lacking enough references. At AFC this is much better than most contributions, but referencing is too poor to pass. BTW the URL is this: http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/howell-edward-welsford-teddy-12660. Two of the four references there may be suitable if anyone has access. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:27, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

I've added another reference, some categories and an infobox, Graeme, and I think it's ready for mainspace now (though it does need a copy edit), but I'm not sure how to publish it. Would you mind doing the honours, if you think it's ready? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 12:58, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the improvements, I have published it. If you have not enabled the gadget and joined up with WP:AFC there is always the "move" button and edit to clean it up. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:42, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Graeme. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 23:20, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Poor reference formatting is not a valid reason for declining a draft. Hack (talk) 05:44, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Aboriginal communities in Western Australia

Input from Australian editors is requested at Talk:Aboriginal communities in Western Australia#Lead section. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:23, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

South Coast railway line rename discussion

Hello there fellow Australian editors! There's been an issue recently over the naming of the South Coast / Illawarra railway line in New South Wales. I'm looking for appropriate people to give their opinion in a discussion of the issue. You can find the discussion here. PhilipTerryGraham ⡭ ₪ ·o' ⍦ ࿂ 00:19, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

South Coast railway line, New South Wales listed at Requested moves

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Yellowdine, Western Australia listed at Requested moves

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Schtick (disc game) listed at Requested moves

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RAM Magazine listed at Requested moves

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Donald Bradman listed at Requested moves

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Oxley, Queensland needs help

Oxley, Queensland continues to be problematic, 10 months after an anonymous editor started making various, incorrect edits to the article. Despite the best attempts by others the IP-hopping editor, who is now tag-teaming with his registered account, continues to make some bad edits. I've requested semi-protection, but extra eyes on the article are needed. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:58, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

I've watchlisted it. Tony (talk) 12:08, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Advance Australia not-so-Fair

I note that Advance Australia Fair is rated as Start-Class, Mid-importance. Really? When I look at the article it seems better than that. If it is not C-Class in its current form, surely it would only take a bit of a push to get it over the line. I know that many of the members of this project are patriotic to our country. I haven't assessed the article myself because I'm not a member, and it's important to form a community view of an important Australian symbol. If you would like me to assess the article I can, but I haven't got time to improve it. Your thoughts, please. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 00:40, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

You are advocating a form of promotion which has no place in Wikipedia. My personal POV is that this colonially concocted doggerel--periodically cleansed and changed to suit current political correctness--is not a genuine national anthem and will inevitably be thrown out when Australia can find a simpler chauvinistic ditty for purposes of sporting triumph, etc. Bjenks (talk) 02:05, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Trying to improve the quality of the article (and its assessment rating) is not the same as promoting the subject of the article. Of course editors must not let their patriotism affect the neutrality of their edits, but equally one's personal dislike of the subject ought not colour one's assessment of the article. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:51, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

@Bjenks: Have you ever read the letter that P D McCormick wrote to Robert Fuller in 1913 explaining why he wrote Advance Australia Fair? It's now in the manuscripts section of the National Library in Canberra and well worth a read. It will provide you with a better understanding of why the song is more patriotic than, say, The Star-Spangled Banner or God Save The Queen. Please note that "periodically cleansed" is incorrect. The words to Advance Australia Fair remain almost the same today as they did in 1879 with only minor changes; there has been no "cleansing". Remember, the national anthem is only an adaptation of AAF, not the song itself, and the only politically correct change for the anthem was to replace "sons" with "all". I'd like to see the article improved. There's a lot more to the story. --AussieLegend (✉) 06:17, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

OK, I have nothing against the unexpurgated original song per se, being an ardent admirer of gallant Cook and the Union Jack. Its manipulation into a "national anthem" is another matter. For instance "For those who've come across the seas / We've boundless plains to share" is a patent embarrassment these days, whoever wrote it. As national anthems go, I love the real ones, like the Marsellaise and Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, but have to smile also at some of the words of God save the Queen and The Star Spangled Banner. Because of such prejudices, I have to disqualify myself from editing Advance Australia Fair. Bjenks (talk) 14:25, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Frill-necked lizard

There is an RfC at Frill-necked lizard - do we call it "Frilled lizard", "Frill-necked lizard"...or something else. Come and add your opinion at Talk:Frill-necked_lizard#RFC:_article_title. cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:49, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride!

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!

What? Wiki Loves Pride, a campaign to document and photograph LGBT culture and history, including pride events
When? June 2015
How can you help?
1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work here

2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Wikipedia articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see examples from last year)

3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.)

Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome!

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's main talk page.

Thanks, and happy editing!

User:Another Believer and User:OR drohowa 02:45, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

RFCs - Aboriginal communities in Western Australia

Editors are requested to comment at:

Mitch Ames (talk) 13:07, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Death of Tyler Cassidy in the news

The article Death of Tyler Cassidy is getting some scrutiny in the media, in particular Channel tens The Project is running a story on it tonight(2-Jun) somewhere between 18:30 and 19:30 can you please keep an eye out for it the usual characters on that and associated articles. Gnan garra 07:30, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

There was a bit of casual vandalism at Peter Hellier, Waleed Aly and Fifi Box, but nothing too serious. Thanks to everyone who braved commercial television to keep an eye on the articles. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 14:05, 3 June 2015 (UTC).

Alan Bond (businessman) not well

Indeed, Bondie is reported in very poor condition after recent heart surgery. ("Complications" and induced coma on life support) I've updated his page with the facts.

I fear someone may try to kill him off prematurely. A few eyes on his page may be a good idea. 220 of ^Borg 01:23, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Surely we should recognise these facts as breaking news—not appropriate for Wikipedia. They could be written up for Wikinews. Bjenks (talk) 02:41, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

It woudn't be premature. Tony (talk) 05:42, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@ Tony ! I think I detect some sarcasm there!

220 of ^Borg 06:57, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@ Bjenks, I actually popped over to Wikinews and suggested that on someones talkpage. Revert me if you wish, but some anon IP is just as likely to add it again, (or say he's dead! Hurrah!) IMHO. 220 of ^Borg 06:57, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

220, me? Sarcastic? Tony (talk) 08:58, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Died

has died[21] Gnan garra 03:29, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, just heard that on 2GB. So my update was useful, but unfortunate. I noted his page had a lot more views after his hospitalisation. 220 of ^Borg 04:26, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Place naming conventions

Discussion

Recently from a conversation on this page, it has become apparent that there is some disagreement as to what format place names should take. Apparently the naming convention guideline was altered some years ago with minimal involvement from Australian editors and its vaugeness is causing some problems as it is open to interpretation.

I propose that a discussion be held and if a consensus is able to be arrived at, this then be proposed for inclusion in the Australian section of the policy document. Given the wide variety of opinions that may arise, I propose that the discussion be held open for at least one calendar month. The formats that are currently in use are: (please feel free to add others):

1) Suburb only, e.g. Cronulla
2) Suburb, city, e.g. Cronulla, Sydney
3) Suburb, state, e.g. Cronulla, New South Wales
4) Suburb, country, e.g. Cronulla, Australia

While I don't think we should explicitly rule it out, using the existing policy document as a reason to keep or change is probably a bit counter productive, giving that it is this policy that if a consensus can be reached, we make seek to change. TT1245 (talk) 02:05, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Comment I would disagree that the current Australian place naming convention guideline was "altered some years ago with minimal involvement from Australian editors". There was considerable input from a vast number of editors - from Australia and elsewhere. Mandatory, compulsory disambiguation for WP:PRIMARY topics was confusing for anyone other than those "in the know" - i.e. active Australian and U.S editors. Editors from elsewhere, infrequent editors and readers (the point of the whole exercise) were perplexed by the convention. Returning to it would be a backward step. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 04:15, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I remember some fairly long discussions. I was actually in favour of mandatory disambiguation and made some arguments along that line that I still stand by. However, the current situation has generally worked well even if I find the wording a little ambiguous. The only action I think we need is to sort out the "Name (state)" format for non "settlements" (I hate that word). --AussieLegend (✉) 09:54, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Comment I don't think a poll is the way to sort this matter out. I can't for the life of me see the problem that editors are so concerned about above - nothing has to be "fixed" immediately - but if there is to be a change then more discussion is necessary to sort out alternatives. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 04:15, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I agree that a poll is not the way to sort this out and that "nothing has to be 'fixed' immediately". The latter is my biggest problem with all of these moves. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:54, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I also agree. And these poll "options" aren't the answer: the person who came up with them got a whole bunch wrong under any approach listed there when he was mass-moving. No mass-moves, discussion on individual cases, voila problem sorted. The Drover's Wife (talk) 19:23, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

For those interested see here for a similar situation. I personally believe where no disambiguation is required it should be option 1, and where it is required, it should be option 2 for suburbs in the capitals (not including "big" burbs, like Parramatta, Liverpool, Campbelltown etc., which are really cities in their own right (I hate to admit this)) and option 3 for the rest. If my version of O2 is hard to implement, it should revert to O3. I however personally like how it is currently. Cheers, Luxure Σ 12:12, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I was heavily involved in establishing the original naming convention that resulted in one accepted name for the article about a populated place, with a redirect or disambig page as appropriate from the shorter form and any others with significant common use or inbound links. I still support <place>, <state> as the best solution. I have accepted moving articles (and leaving redirects) to the shorter article name in individual cases. Mass moves do not allow for consideration or cleaning up of ambiguous or template links, and leave the place looking messy. Once there was a disambig page for Cronulla (disambiguation) located at Cronulla for a short time, of the links I processed with Navigation Popups|Popups]], I think I found three common appropriate targets for the inbound links before the disambig page was moved away from the simple name by someone from the disambig taskforce who had noticed there were too many inbound links (and I was travelling with limited ability to fix them quicker). While many place names appear to be the primary, or at least original, use of a word, they often become secondary or ambiguous with an event, group or smaller contained place over time. Using names qualified by the state is no worse for readers, significantly helps cleanup crew editors working to resolve ambiguous or wrong links, assists frequent editors to be confident that they have linked to what they think they have, and slightly disadvantages infrequent editors who might not notice that they have linked to a disambig page by accident (which is easier to find and fix by the cleanup crews than the reverse). A vote will not resolve anything as well as discussion can and has. --Scott Davis ^Talk 14:12, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

WP:Voting is evil, given how much moving articles without a valid reason (removing disambiguation isnt a valid reason) causes both disruption and unnecessary work I think we should take the same approach to uk/us spelling of common words, where its at now is where it should stay unless there is truly a compelling reason such as; Villawood being recognised nationally with the detention centre rather than the suburb from which it took its name or a name change like Crawley bay to Matilda bay. Gnan garra 14:29, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Vote

While a vote is not the be all and end all, it may be useful to a closing moderator in assessing. Have arranged into 2 sections, one for where the place is clearly the primary topic and one where disambiguation is required. Would expect that editors who prefer options 2-4 in the first section, would opt for the same in the second, but in case this is not so, probably best for editors to cast a vote in each section.

Where disambig may not be required

Option 1 if an article is the primary topic, then there should be no need for disambiguation. (as nominator) TT1245 (talk) 02:06, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Where disambig is required

Option 3 in line with how most articles are presently named and likewise in other jurisdictions. (as nominator) TT1245 (talk) 02:06, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of List of awards and nominations received by Crowded House for featured list review

I have nominated List of awards and nominations received by Crowded House for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Seattle (talk) 09:32, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Mass moving of place articles

Not sure if there was recent discussion about place names, but TT1245 is currently busy moving numerous Australian articles e.g. Cronulla, New South Wales --> Cronulla Dl2000 (talk) 03:32, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Courtesy ping: @TT1245:. --99of9 (talk) 06:27, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

The moves are in line with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Australia and cleans up a legacy issue. TT1245 should be thanked. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 03:25, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

The key word is may, not should. Particularly as TT1245 shows no interest in actually addressing the approximately ten million redirects he's creating, I'd rather he stop until he at least fixes the mess he's leaving behind him. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:53, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

It is a matter of debate as to whether (a) the legacy issue needs change now (b) whether the average current editor of 2015 knows of the arguments and debates up to 7 and 8 years ago. I think it is quite onerous on the part of supporters of removing state names to (a) show the evidence and links to the older 7 and 8 year old debates and 'legacies', and alert current editors as to why stand alone unqualified place names actually help anyone, specially the reader who is both not australian, and also geographically challenged. User:JarrahTree 15:46, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

I think at the bare minimum he either needs to start addressing the thousands of redirect issues he's creating, or stop, or be blocked. This is questionably helpful at best, but if he won't clean up after himself it becomes clearly detrimental in my book. The Drover's Wife (talk) 01:52, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm a convert on the issue of the disambiguation, but the editor does need to make sure they clean up afterwards; they are apparently very new, so perhaps someone who knows more about it than I do could explain exactly what needs to happen on the editor's talk page. Frickeg (talk) 03:00, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Can someone explain to me (in small words) what the problem with the redirects is? I was under the impression that a bot came around and re-aimed any double redirects created by pagemoves (which appears to be the case for the few I've spotchecked). Or is there a completely different issue here? -- saberwyn 03:14, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

@Frickeg: He's already been pinged here and, when he made 72 more page moves without responding I left a message on his talk page.[22] He hasn't been back since. Maybe I scared him off. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:54, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

I've never been thrilled about [suburb, state] format. So Cronulla is somewhere south of Cooma? Or perhaps in the Hunter region? For anyone but locals, "Cronulla, Sydney" would be so much more informative. Indeed, on odd occasions I've repiped such items in the main text to clarify. Tony (talk) 13:16, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, I am adamantly opposed to this. The situation before we implemented this guideline was a ginormous clusterfuck, with articles using about fifteen possible means of disambiguation and it being impossible to reliably link a suburb or town article if you were seeking to do so without a thorough Google for places an article might be. I can live with people moving them to the exact suburb name if it doesn't need disambiguating, on the grounds they clean up their mess afterwards, but any disambiguation needs to stay at "Town, State" for very good reason. The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:24, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
  - I am adamantly opposed to using the old colonial state-names in titles and main text by formula. So it's Mosman, Melbourne, and Mosman, Sydney. What could be clearer? Tony (talk) 14:54, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
    - That's contrary to WP:NCPLACE#Australia which says Localities (other than suburbs) and places such as train stations, parks, etc., may be disambiguated, where necessary, by reference to city rather than state. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:14, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

(after edit conflicts) There has been a long-standing convention that Australian town/locality placenames are qualified by the state name, to ease the fact that many town names are used by other things too - either another town or person that this town was named for, or an item or activity that is named after the town - railway station, football team, airport, brandname, event, mineral. It is much easier to manage inbound links and disambiguations if the "right" links are to the qualified name. This convention was weakened to "generally qualified", and a few people have made efforts at various times to pick places that have no other articles with the same name and moved them. for example, I was surprised to discover that "Minchinbury" is a place - that's not what I think of as the primary meaning for that brandname as I'm not from Western Sydney, and geologists probably have a different interpretation again. We should be aiming for "the principle of least surprise" for both readers and editors --Scott Davis ^Talk 13:39, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Indeed. Another example that this user just moved en masse was Villawood, New South Wales - when Villawood Immigration Detention Centre is, if not the primary topic itself, at least as notable. These are the sorts of things that at least warrant individual move discussions. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:08, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

mass moves are a pain as they not only break/create redirects for internal links they also break external linking for the people that reuse the content whether its another site or QRpedia project that last thing anyone should encounter is page being redirected after following a link. Additionally they destroy all metrics to for such connections resulting in false data which is then permanently understated as redirect links cant distinguish between what started as an outside link and what started as an internal link Gnan garra 14:14, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

For all the talk of long standing conventions etc, no one has yet come up with the forum/s where it was previously discussed. Naming convention guideline section for Australia seems fairly clear IMHO in stating that city or town can be used on its own, with disambiguation required only where if there is a conflicting article. Quite happy to be proven wrong though.

If it was agreed as suggested to adopt a standard format, a project to cleanse doesn't appear to have been executed, given that there are many city, towns and suburb articles using multiple naming conventions. So if creating redirects creates issues, then mine are likely to be a drop in the ocean. Not a criticism of anybody, just an observable fact. Gosford for example has Gosford, New South Wales and Gosford, Australia redirecting to it, which in turn both have multiple links to them.

To use as Villawood example, the suburb should always take precedent as the lead article. The other articles derive their names from that of the suburb, so are of secondary nature. And if of sufficient interest are likely to have their own section in the article, as the Villawood Detention Centre does. Much like Sydney is the lead article, as it is the city's name that drives the titles of the Sydney Football Stadium, Sydney Opera House etc articles. But totally different with Richmond, New South Wales and Richmond, Victoria where neither is 'heads and shoulders' over the other. Ok, there are also other Richmonds, but assuming these were the only two, then it would be appropriate to have Richmond as a disambiguation page. Likewise as suggested above about Minchinbury. TT1245 (talk) 07:14, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

There was a formal naming convention, on the naming conventions page, that localities were titled at "Town, State" for many years. This was to avoid the "multiple naming conventions" that existed back in, like, 2003, and which haven't existed for a decade because that was implemented. Now, they're either at "Town, State" or "Town". That was subsequently watered down to the present wording.

Suggesting that the suburb should always take precedence ignores WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Outside of residents of Sydney, neither Minchinbury or Villawood are remotely close to the primary topics for those articles, and people have had to address those situations with disambiguation pages that now more appropriately reflect the situation. This needs to be discussed on a case by case basis, and mass moves based on bad assumption are inappropriate. The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:44, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I've just discovered that some of the moves have affected related categories at commons that are normally named the same as the articles here. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:49, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

lets see start at Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board/Archive_36#RM_--_moving_forward then you'll find in 2011 wording was changed by discussion at the naming convention page without any significant input from Australian editors, wording was further changed in 2013 by discussion of 3-4 editors again Australian editors werent made aware of that discussion either. Gnan garra 10:09, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Another move today

Today TT1245 has moved Port Stephens to Port Stephens, New South Wales, to "allow for Port Stephens, Falkland Islands article". This is incorrect, and I'd argue unnecessary, disambiguation. The correct disambiguation is Port Stephens (New South Wales) but I don't see the need. The articles were managed by a hatnote, which TT1245 has seen fit to delete.[23] At least this time he's fixed up the redirects, but this is really moving articles for the sake of moving articles. Port Stephens and Port Stephens, Falkland Islands have happily co-existed for eight years with no problems so there was no need for a move. --AussieLegend (✉) 08:51, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

This brings up the disastrous "primary topic" principle, by which the plainest title (i.e. without disambiguation) is allowed on a first-come-first-served basis, no matter how trivial or unimportant that topic is compared with its siblings. I believe that principle is now widely deprecated. Tony (talk) 10:26, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Primary topic is still widely used. I've seen no indication that it's deprecated. --AussieLegend (✉) 10:39, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

WP:PRIMARYTOPIC still exists and very much still used, and the first come first served principle is never used as a reason to keep something at an unqualified article name. It might only be the case if the primary topics have changed over time (ie with people, a 1st term politician is rarely a primary topic, but if he becomes a minister, then they might be), and no one has got around to moving or creating a DAB page. Do we still follow the ", New South Wales" for towns and suburbs, but "(New South Wales)'" for geographical features? The-Pope (talk) 12:51, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

There has never been any consensus to move away from that form of disambiguation. --AussieLegend (✉) 13:19, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

There was never any consensus for it to be applied. It is the invention of one B2C, and was added to WP:AT without consulting other editors. I've witnessed the huge amount of trouble it has caused, and where in so many places it just doesn't work. Tony (talk)

Can you identify when it was added to WP:AT? The problem we have at the moment is that the naming converntion for Australia says Most Australian settlement articles. Port Stephens is not a settlement, it's a body of water, so the relevant portion of the naming convention would seem to be Localities (other than suburbs) and places such as train stations, parks, etc., may be disambiguated, where necessary, by reference to city rather than state which is confusing as Port Stephens isn't part of a city. In this case [[Port Stephens]] seems to be the right place as, based on page views, it seems to be the primary topic. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:50, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

The flaws of a first-come, first-served approach to article titling is exactly why mass-moves are a bad idea, and it's ironic that TT1245 moving something to disambiguate it is bringing us back here. The Port Stephens situation is very easily solved by moving it to Port Stephens (New South Wales), and the disambiguation page is completely appropriate. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:19, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Based on page views, google searches etc, the NSW body of water would seem to be the primary topic so it should never have been moved. Then there is the not so small matter that because TT1245 only fixed a handful of the most blatantly obvious articles, previously valid links in 150 articles were turned into links to a disambiguation page. --AussieLegend (✉) 15:50, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Crux of the issue appears to be the different interpretations of what format should be used, which from discussions above is not clear due to a vague policy. However in this case it was fairly cut and dry that the disambig page was appropriate despite the protestations of one editor. As another editor has pointed out, had it been done when the Falkand Islands article was established in 2007, then there wouldn't have been an issue.[24] That something was not correctly set 8 years ago, is a fairly lame excuse not to correct.

Port Stephens (New South Wales) would logically be the primary article if Wiki was purely an Australian project. But as it is a global project, it is unlikely the other 99.7% of the world would agree, to whom Port Stephens, NSW would be as known as Port Stephens, Falkland Islands is to an Australian reader. So regardless of the merits or otherwise of my edits, at least it has led to a bringing to the surface of various issues editors have with the policy, and the problems its vaugeness is causing. TT1245 (talk) 01:32, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

No, the crux of the issue is not the interpretation, it's that you are moving articles simply for the sake of moving articles and causing problems in the process. As I said, moving the Port Stephens article turned valid links on 150 pages into links to a disambiguation page. That's something that somebody then has to fix. Your moves are creating additional work for other editors. A move didn't need to be made when the Falkland Islands article was created, it was handled more simply by the simple creation of a hatnote that has worked for eight years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. As for the primary topic issue, and also as I've already stated, based on page views, google searches etc, the NSW body of water would seem to be the primary topic. In the past 90 days there were 243 views of Port_Stephens,_Falkland_Islands,[25] while there were 1,480 views of Port Stephens.[26] That means at least 1,237 people did not move on to the Falkland Islands article. In addition to that, google searches for both places show far more hits for the NSW Port Stephens. That's just for a start but really, primary topic is irrelevant. What it comes down to is don't move articles just because you can and when you do have a need to move one, make sure you fix the problems you create. Don't leave it for somebody else to clean up your mess. If you really want to do something useful, there are plenty of things to do. You could always go through Category:Australian place articles using missing parameters and fix the problems in the 229 articles currently in that category. I've already been through a few thousand. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:20, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Seems I was right though. Thanks for the tip on where I could edit, but I think I'll plot my own course. Happy editing. TT1245 (talk) 02:13, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

No, you clearly were not right, as explained above. There is clearly resistance to your moves by other editors. --AussieLegend (✉) 10:51, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

@TT1245: Right about what? I don't see anything to suggest "right" in the discussion above. You are getting close to people going further on preventing you from moving articles under any circumstance. You don't want to go down that path (and neither does anyone else or we'd already be there). --Scott Davis ^Talk 12:11, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Green Rain vs Blue Rain (including humidity colour)

Hello fellow Aussies! I recently made an edit to both the Perth and Freo articles changing the rainfall (or precipitation) colour in the weatherboxes to green from blue. I am unable find a consensus I read concerning the use of green rain in Aussie articles, so it was changed back to blue. I really wish I could find it! Anyway, the rainfall colour should be green because it will keep in line with other Aussie articles that contain climate info, because almost all of them have green rain. It sets the Aussie articles apart from the rest of the world (like our use of infobox colours/use) and reminds of vegetation. It also helps differentiate between average rainy days and minimum/record low temps, which are also blue (see here to compare). What do you think? I would like to come to a consensus where we decide whether we have strictly blue, strictly green or leave as is in articles right now. Cheers, Luxure Σ 05:17, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Green does remind you of vegetation so why would you use it for rain, which is not vegetation? Rain is water and water is normally associated with the colour blue. This seems a no-brainer to me. --AussieLegend (✉) 05:51, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

for someone whos colour blind red and green cause accessability issues colour gradients are worse... just make it B&W with bold for the max/minimum values other wise blue. Gnan garra 12:34, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

As I said on my talk page: Green just seems so unnatural to me. Most depictions of water use blue – eg on maps, in cartoons/animations, diagrams such as File:Capillarity.svg, and the rain in various weather icons – I don't think any of them would look better with lime green instead of blue. - Evad37 [talk] 01:31, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

For those wondering, here is the Fremantle page with green and with blue. Blue seems more natural to me, but as User:Gnangarra says, we should avoid colour coding to convey information, as it may not be accessible to the colourblind, those using screen readers, etc. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 03:25, 7 June 2015 (UTC).

Colour is discriminatory to a specific range of readers/listeners/users of wikipedia, I would strongly suggest some other form of distinguishing pattern or device if it is at all possible. User:JarrahTree 06:17, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, blue seems like a no-brainer here if we must use colour. I would support using colour provided it doesn't disadvantage those with colourblindness, on which I defer to those with more knowledge. Frickeg (talk) 08:12, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't think in this particular case that it disadvantages anyone, since the numerical stats are still there for people who cannot see colour to use. However, it's a good habit to get into not colour coding anything, that way you remove any possibility of accidentally excluding someone. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:38, 7 June 2015 (UTC).

I put through a colour blind test site and the reds in the temperature arent readable to everyone already add the green in its even less readable. Gnan garra 12:27, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

I tried to see how it compare re:colour blindness, on a website called colorfilter.wickline.org . It looks like from that website (selecting from prot- deut- and trit- -anopes/-anomalous) that green may actually help with distinguishing the colours (deut- and prot- being R-G, trit- the rarer B-Y). It would be interesting to see Gnangarra distinguish whether Normal looks like deut- or prot-. Knowing that everyone's eye is different, how Gnangarra perceives it would be different to Joe round the block. But using that website it seems to me that the green actually helps distinguish between the blue. The green colour represents vegetation, as in, everything is green after it rains, something a lot of sandgropers will know, with the veg. over there in summer being yellow. There was an edit conflict when I was writing this so gnangarra, did you use the same website? Luxure Σ 12:32, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

I use colour contrast analyser, which covers all types of colour blindness P,D, T as well as monochrome, P&D the colour is high contrast to rest of the table, blue is obviously readable suprisingly I see more contrast in the red areas when the blue rain is present making them more visable. for T red areas arent as big a problem, but again with the blue for rain the overall appearance is more balanced and less confronting. Over every format if thre is really aneed for any colouring then the blue provides a much better balance to the table for those with P D or T Gnan garra 13:02, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

This one does the same, yet what exactly do you mean by "contrast". For example (unrelated) when driving at night? I personally find the green more readable than the red, although if you visit Cairns have a look at its weatherbox (as it goes to a really dark green). What do you think/see, contrast and colour wise? Luxure Σ 12:05, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Contrast (vision) as in contrast is determined by the difference in the color and brightness of the object and other objects within the same field of view when using blue for rain in all tests the appearance is more balanced and less confronting, when using green the contrast of the red areas causes numbers to be indistinguisahable Gnan garra 13:40, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested move - Coolangatta

The views of those that watch this page are most welcome to comment at Talk:Coolangatta, Queensland#Requested move 12 June 2015. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 06:11, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Fremantle Prison FAC discussion

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Fremantle Prison/archive3. Thanks. Evad37 [talk] 15:07, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested move discussion

Related to the multiple moves discussion above, specifically this part, a requested move was opened in my name by another editor. Since it's open, comments are requested. The discussion may be found here. Please note there has been some confusion by respondents because the discussion was opened on the article's talk page after the article had already been moved to another page. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:49, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

There is so much discussion and time wasted on trivial things like article titles. Instead we could be spending time cleaning up articles which have been tagged for the last eight and half years or a million other things more aligned with actually sharing knowledge. I'm not saying these things shouldn't be fleshed out but really does it matter that much when the majority of users can search and refine their searches until they find what they want. - Shiftchange (talk) 10:45, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm glad someone finally said it, agree with you 100% Shiftchange. Hughesdarren (talk) 12:26, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm not disagreeing with you. After the WP:RM request was opposed I gave up, moved the article to the correct disambiguation and then wasted hours fixing the 150 articles that had broken links as a result of the move. For some reason another editor decided to subsequently open the discussion in my name so it now has to progress. That said, there are indications that the status quo is the correct location as available evidence is that the NSW Port Stephens is the primary topic, so that needs to be addressed. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:48, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Some of us agree with you and would rather be cleaning up 8-year-old messes instead of cleaning up new messes created in the last month by the good faith deliberate actions of other editors. --Scott Davis ^Talk 12:54, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Problem front and centre appears to be an ambiguous policy document. It states: "the name of a city or town may be used alone if the place is the primary or only topic for that name". It needs to be more assertive, something along the lines of either:

the name of a city or town without further disambiguation should be used if the place is the primary or only topic for that name, or
the name of a city or town should be stated in the Town, State/Territory even if is the primary or only topic for that name

Until this is addressed these Groundhog Day discussions are likely to recur. Coomera81 (talk) 02:17, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

It can't be addressed because the wording reflects the previous discussion: that there was a complete lack of consensus around place naming, such that the previous guideline was watered down to this as a compromise. If people generally leave it alone and move things here and there as appropriate, no one is going to complain too much. If people insist on trying to do mass moves, we wind up having multiple contentious WP:RM discussions every single week. We need an agreement to keep the peace, which reflects the wording already there - there needs to actually be good reason to mess with the status quo. And this should necessarily preclude mass moves of either the user who started this or the Mattingbn varieties. The Drover's Wife (talk) 03:19, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, none of what Coomera81 applies to Port Stephens, as the naming convention only mentions settled areas (cities, towns etc) and Port Stephens is not a settled area, it's a body of water, like the Pacific Ocean, or Port Jackson, so the naming convention doesn't actually apply. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:31, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Dont bite - 16 June

Hi Folks, just a heads up I will be teaching some professors & researchers from UWA, Curtin and Sydney University today in preparation for workshops that will be happening in July... Our focus will be on Western Australian articles related to Noongar and Swan river topics if you see any issues caused by new editors please dont bite preferably drop me a note rather than reverting outright starting 10am local(AWST, +2 hours for AEST) running until 12-1. I'll clean up after the event on articles editted we'll also endeavour to tag articles so watch out for {{underconstruction}} at the top of pages affected. Gnan garra 23:49, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Interview for The Signpost

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Sydney for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Thanks, Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (message) @ 10:01, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

@Rcsprinter123:, WikiProject Sydney has been inactive for five years and never really took off in the first place. We have a number of very active Australian WikiProjects, but that seems like a very bizarre choice. The Drover's Wife (talk) 11:37, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that the talk page for WP Sydney redirects here is rather telling. Step hen 11:55, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

And the winner is Si-d-i-nee, I think... Dan arndt (talk) 12:30, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, why isn't it marked inactive, then, so that somebody passing by can tell?

Can you recommend another Australian city wikiproject that I could amend the interview to, then? Rcsprinter¹²³ (interact) @ 16:25, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Only WA is active, while its not a city its contributors are more or less perth based, WT:WA -- Gnan garra 23:52, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Most Australian city projects have been subsumed back into the state projects as time has passed from the initial flurry some years ago - and most state projects have very limited participation, a number of Australian editors are lone wolf eds not identifying either their city or state - but as time passes, the West Australian state project is the only project in Australia with an unbroken record of participation and meetups in real life... and the Perth project is still taggable.

Sydney, Melbourne, Hobart, Brisbane, Adelaide all have individuals who are very good editors and enthusiastic and productive wikipedians and are aligned with their city and state, but have no active wikiproject with the same active combination of the Western Australian/Perth to wave a flag about. JarrahTree 00:36, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Looks like the best place to have a crack at is Western Australia, then. Please consider the interview redirected to there. I'll take a note to the project's talkpage,too. Rcsprinter¹²³ (babble) @ 20:05, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Ron Clarke death

For your information, former Olympic athelete Ron Clarke died "early this morning" per ABC. Basic sourced update done. 220 of ^Borg 00:12, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

ITN Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates. -- Aronzak (talk) 11:31, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Australian place

{{Infobox Australian place}}, which is used in over 10,000 articles, is attracting attention from some other editors. It was last nominated for deletion in 2009 and I suspect that may happen again. Some attention from Australian editors is necessary, or we might end up having to fix 10,000 articles. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:16, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Another move discussion

Not a place name this time! Talk:Reginald Baker (sportsman)#Requested move 21 June 2015. Trust this isn't disruptive. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 23:58, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

George Cross (actor)

just noticed there are two different sources for the date of death for George Cross (actor). possible that the newspaper articles are about two different people. does anyone have any insight? Frietjes (talk) 00:14, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

"The Sorlie Show", published 2 Jun 1950, refers to "In the Sydney Daily Mirror of August 26 last" – i.e. August of the previous year, 1949. That matches up with the other article "Former Matinee Idol Dead", published 13 Aug 1949, which says "Mr. George Walter Cross died yesterday" – i.e. 12 Aug 1949. - Evad37 [talk] 00:38, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

fixed the article to use 1949 Kerry (talk) 02:55, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

AfC submission

Draft:Jane Macmanamin (murder victim, Australia) --> what do you reckon? Cheers, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 14:54, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I think yes, based on the newspaper coverage, although it should be at Jane Macmanamin or Murder of Jane Macmanamin. I'd be a bit concerned about the amount to which it relies on State Records Office information, which is difficult to verify and gets perilously close to WP:OR territory. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:29, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

However, Malachi Martin (Australian murderer) is clearly by the same author. That shouldn't have been accepted, as its poorly sourced at best and WP:OR at worst, and makes the dude out to be a serial killer on the basis of thinly cited sources. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:32, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Strongly disagree with broad qualifiers like 'Australia' related to the subjects, surely the state name, or smaller range is a better qualifier.JarrahTree 02:41, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation wouldn't be needed if it goes to main space. There are no other Jane Macmanamins on Wikipedia. Hack (talk) 08:38, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

I have accepted this as an article at Jane Macmanamin. Can someone give this a good category though? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:57, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Copyright Violation Detection - EranBot Project

A new copy-paste detection bot is now in general use on English Wikipedia. Come check it out at the EranBot reporting page. This bot utilizes the Turnitin software (ithenticate), unlike User:CorenSearchBot that relies on a web search API from Yahoo. It checks individual edits rather than just new articles. Please take 15 seconds to visit the EranBot reporting page and check a few of the flagged concerns. Comments welcome regarding potential improvements. These likely copyright violations can be searched by WikiProject categories. Use "control-f" to jump to your area of interest. --Lucas559 (talk) 15:13, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

How does this work? I'm confused as how I can help. Thank you. Alec Station (talk) 01:35, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Wikiconference Australia 2015 cancelled

Wikiconference Australia 2015 originally proposed for 3-5 October 2015 will not be taking place. Thanks to those of you who expressed your support. You are all free to watch the football finals instead :-) Kerry (talk) 07:28, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Approve a bot request to link Australian creative biographies to the DAAO project

Hi all.

As part of a government grant we have been working to create links from Wikipedia to the DAAO, Design and Art Australia Online, a primary resource of Australian creative biography, one that feeds the NLA/Trove database, an authority control for Wikipedia.

We have had lengthy discussions on the nature and placement of the link which has resulted in the suggestion that it be an external link.

We have now created the bot to create the links. It scans a number of Australian categories and tries to automatically match them against DAAO entries. If a match is found without the relevant external link then one is created. Currently we would like approval to test the bot out and remediate any bugs. Unfortunately this has been denied in the Bot request queue.

If anyone here has the ability to approve or progress a bot request please ping me so that I can resubmit it.

Thanks in advance! Queen Victoria (talk) 04:52, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Since you do not seem to have much experience editing on Wikipedia yet, it is unlikely that you will be permitted to operate a bot. However you should be able to modify your code to make a local list of what you want to change on your own computer. Then manually create a page with what changes you want to see happen, and then we can ask someone else, perhaps with AWB to apply the changes. Even without automation people should be able to do the job manually. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:06, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your response @Graeme Bartlett:. This is an administrative task only and shouldn't be held up on the quantity of edits of a single programmer rather on the quality of the service to the Australian creative arts community as a whole. Is anyone able to auspice this task so we can finish this project? Queen Victoria (talk) 18:51, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

If the only issue is the quantity of edits made by the bot operator, then I'm happy to take that over and operate the bot myself (assuming you're willing and can provide me with the code). My question would be more around if the community is comfortable that adding these links to articles is within the scope of the external links policy. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 03:26, 4 July 2015 (UTC).

Commentary on sexist, misogynistic and/or anti-feminist feelings at Mad Max: Fury Road article

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:Mad Max: Fury Road#Should commentary on sexist, misogynistic and/or anti-feminist feelings be included? A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 (talk) 00:09, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Rail Transport in Australia - Sub project?

Hi all. Ive been looking at various pages to do with Rail Transport in Australia and am wondering if there might be a few others interested in forming a bit of a project team to work on them. The main aim of the team would be to do on wikipedia what has not been done in the real world and have a standardised, consistent way of documenting the industry! Im still new and learning how to do things so could use some more experienced editors to help out with the more advanced items. Perhaps one of these people could be the leader of the project to make sure it follows the rules. Id think this would be a shorter life project as once its done it would only take minor maintenance to keep it up to date. If anyones interested, let me know. Jamesbushell.au (talk) 23:09, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm happy to be involved on-and-off (mostly "off" for the next few weeks though). If you look at the history of a few key articles and a few niche articles, you'll spot other people with the right interests to poke more deliberately. I think it would be reasonable to start a page at Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/Rail transport to coordinate if you get a few people together and need a spot to coordinate work better than either here or talk:Rail transport in Australia. Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian Roads possibly provides a model to follow (and probably has overlap in interested people). --Scott Davis ^Talk 13:45, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I think we could very well sustain a Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian railways: we have incredibly in-depth content that's been rolled out without much coordination or many conversations between editors in different states, we've got a bunch of active editors in the area, and there's a whole bunch of national railways WikiProjects elsewhere on Wikipedia. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:06, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Thoughts?

I was reviewing Draft:Googong Township, and that made me look at Googong, New South Wales. Is the latter really a suburb of Queanbeyan? Do you reckon the draft should be merged with Googong? Cheers, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 11:29, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

The people marketing the Googong development (largely to Canberrans) are going to great lengths to portray it as being an entirely independent township - at one stage they ran an ad which claimed that the place is only "technically in New South Wales"! The Queanbeyan City Council website calls it a "self-contained township" here, and Googling "googong suburb" doesn't turn up any reliable sources which place the development within Queanbeyan proper (it's separated from the city by about 5 km of bushland). It would make sense to merge those two articles, though probably with some tweaks to the draft given its a tad spammy. Nick-D (talk) 11:52, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Googong is definitely a suburb of Queanbeyan,[27] and the township is wholly within the northern part of the suburb so it does make sense to merge the two as Nick-D suggested. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:49, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that source! Nick-D (talk) 11:03, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon

Can you guys help with Disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon? Putting their names into news.google.com gets a lot of results but i can't exrtract the reliable info from the weak and a lot of the newspapers from the time of the actual crime are not digitised. Paul Austin (talk) 19:33, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Googling 'Joanne Ratcliffe' near 'Kirste Gordon' gives a proximity word search that might return better results. The case is linked in Beaumont children disappearance, and there's a reference in there to a scanned Age article from the period. Step hen 00:57, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Kingdom of Australia listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Kingdom of Australia. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:29, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Note: There's another discussion of relevance right below Kingdom of Australia at RFD. It's New Gold Mountain → Melbourne. -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:35, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

"Bandaiyan"

Bandaiyan has been nominated for deletion. It is a redirect that currently targets "Australia" -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 06:12, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Ballarat Grammar School

needs some sources. I have protected it from edit warring in the meantime. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:16, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Police uniforms

Sam Browne belt includes a rambling paragraph about Australian police uniforms that is hard to read and impossible to interpret unambiguously. See Talk:Sam Browne belt#Australian police. I'm ignorant of the subject, and this seems like a good place to request a cleanup. --Thnidu (talk) 18:03, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

[1] South Australia. Highways and Local Government Dept; South Australian Government Tourist Bureau (1950), South Australia showing main road system and important district roads, Highways & Local Government Dept. : M.E. Sherrah, Government photolithographer, retrieved 30 January 2015

[2] Powell, H. E (1922), South Australian railways, H. E. Powell Photolithographer, retrieved 30 January 2015

[3] STARICK, P. (2015, May 21). Getting up close with our first mega warship. The Advertiser Retrieved from [1]

[4] Sheridan, G. (2015, May 22). Warships cost blows out to $9bn. The Australian Retrieved from [2]

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